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post #16 of 33 Old 09-17-2014, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilcowRoland View Post
Ah. Good stuff. I wasn't expecting the high-end cars when I started watching the video and suddenly I heard the supercharger whine coming up fast on the right. I'm sure that's not intimidating as you're praying your $500 Duster makes it around the track.

If you ever do get into ChumpCar, you need to make it down here to VIR. It's quite the road course.
VIR is definitely on my team's short list. A friend of mine took his Toyota Celica (Team Fiery Death) to VIR for this year's Chump race after having a horrible experience at the now infamous Thunderdome / Nelson Ledges race of 2011. He supposedly had a great time and is looking forward to going back.

Running on the track with those high dollar cars wasn't as intimidating as I anticipated. After all, they've got up to hundreds of thousands of dollars to lose compared to our... hundreds of dollars. We could hold our own with most cars through the slower sections of the track, but found ourselves giving plenty of point-by passes in the straights. Did manage to have some fun playing with a pair of Mini Coopers later in the day. We were also able to hit 110 mph on the main straight and turn sub 2 minute laps, which is supposedly in the "respectable" category.
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post #17 of 33 Old 09-17-2014, 01:06 PM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

Very respectable. From the video, it looked like the car was generally going where you pointed it. Getting the understeer reigned in, especially in a front-heavy and torquey V6 FWD, is tricky business. I know with the VW team I've been helping, that thing corners on rails now with various tweaks to the alignment and suspension. If actually kind of oversteers more often than not. They were having the same problem as you though, the engine kept overheating and breaking things. The car just got back from the ChumpCar Michigan race last month and after replacing headgasket and a few other odds and ends, we think the overheating issues are now solved. Going to do some carb tuning at the autox this weekend.

Anyways, looking forward to more from the Lemon Duster. Great work so far.

-Brian

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post #18 of 33 Old 09-18-2014, 09:41 AM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

are you allowed to run oil coolers etc? What kind of oil are you using? I don't run expensive stuff but this seems like the event to run more robust oil when it comes to dealing with temperatures.
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post #19 of 33 Old 09-18-2014, 10:51 AM Thread Starter
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilcowRoland View Post
Very respectable. From the video, it looked like the car was generally going where you pointed it. Getting the understeer reigned in, especially in a front-heavy and torquey V6 FWD, is tricky business. I know with the VW team I've been helping, that thing corners on rails now with various tweaks to the alignment and suspension. If actually kind of oversteers more often than not. They were having the same problem as you though, the engine kept overheating and breaking things. The car just got back from the ChumpCar Michigan race last month and after replacing headgasket and a few other odds and ends, we think the overheating issues are now solved. Going to do some carb tuning at the autox this weekend.

Anyways, looking forward to more from the Lemon Duster. Great work so far.
It took us a while to get the old P-body setup correctly, but I think we are 99% of the way there. The biggest improvements we made were raising the roll center by way of re-positioning the control arm mounts and lowering the rear of the car.

The weigh distribution isn't ideal, but it also isn't as bad as people would have you believe. We measured 60/40 earlier this year with a dry weight of ~2400 lbs.

We were initially having some problems with the back end locking up and kicking left during heavy braking. We remedied this by replacing the EBC yellow pads with a much less aggressive rear pad and aligning the rear axle. We measured about 3 of thrust angle difference in the rear axle and this was causing the twitchiness of the rear end during braking. The rear brakes now lock up simultaneously with the fronts and the back end doesn't walk out to either side anymore.

The handling is pretty neutral. If anything, it'll over steer before under steer. While this sounds like fun, it can catch new drivers off guard if they aren't prepared.

We are running the same Ebay "race car rate!" springs on all four corners that came with our el-cheap coil over kit. We ghetto-measured the rates to be somewhere between 450 and 500 lbs. The car really needs between 300 and 350 lbs. max in the front, but new springs aren't in the budget and we are trying to do this as honestly as possible (cheating only when absolutely necessary). For front struts, we picked up a set of second gen Neon adjustable Konis while in the rear we sourced a pair of Rancho RS5000s from a Toyota Tacoma that work perfectly in our significantly lowered travel range. The front still "hops" on the really rough pavement / asphalt, even on the stiffest Koni settings. Not much we can do about that until we go with softer front springs.

How I raise the roll center
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
are you allowed to run oil coolers etc? What kind of oil are you using? I don't run expensive stuff but this seems like the event to run more robust oil when it comes to dealing with temperatures.
We did get the judge to look the other way at oil cooler that was sourced from a C7 Corvette's differential cooler. He feels sorry that we keep blowing up, so he cuts a little slack in the engine explosion prevention department...

At the actual race, we run the Mobile-1 15W/50 full synthetic with extra zinc additive. It's the same stuff source for the Z06s and ZR1s, should be good enough for us.

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post #20 of 33 Old 09-20-2014, 10:05 AM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

FYI the twin turbo 6g72's have oil coolers. I really only think they matter for the kind of stuff that you are doing.

What temperature thermostat? Can you actually keep temperatures to thermostat temp?
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post #21 of 33 Old 09-22-2014, 07:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

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Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
FYI the twin turbo 6g72's have oil coolers. I really only think they matter for the kind of stuff that you are doing.

What temperature thermostat? Can you actually keep temperatures to thermostat temp?
We were running a 180F T-stat initially with coolant temps "holding" at 215-220F while running WFO. We experimented by running with no T-stat at all, but that made no difference.

We are in the process of installing the large 2-row Griffin Aluminum radiator. The main judge at Lemons gave us the green light and said: "Just make the thing last for an entire weekend, I don't care what you have to spend..." He's said to have a soft spot for K-cars. I never got this type of leniency when I was running a Toyota.

We are also investigating an oil accumulator at the moment and / or ghetto oil pan sump expansion.
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post #22 of 33 Old 09-25-2014, 11:32 AM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

They do sell 160 degree Stats. I would not run "no stat" as I would want the restriction causing higher water pressure in the block to prevent boiling hot spots. I wonder how your current "air control" is forcing air through the radiator OR letting it go around the intercooler. Again, I don't know your rules. I would like to get as much fixed inside the rules before leniency which is something that stresses me out as its not reliable.

BTW, what does your radiator look like. I have seen OEM raditors that are 3x as thick as others.

Don't know if its an airflow issue or a waterflow issue, or both. If you have one of the thick core units I would say airflow. The replacement radiator I bought is an aluminum "Vista pro" which is the very thick core (1.25" or so) but it did not seal perfectly a year later. Some issue with something I can't remember how it stopped happening or if I cheated with some alumiseal.

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post #23 of 33 Old 09-25-2014, 03:12 PM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

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Originally Posted by Ondonti View Post
Run the big filter. ph8a is the Fram part number that you can cross reference to other brands. I am too cheap to run a nice version of this style of filter. They are massive and fit great on the 3.0.
I tried cross referencing the fram filter, Came up as the Mopar 5281090, I already run those. Are they the same or is yours larger?

Too bad I don't have a spare car to get in on this with, looks like a riot.
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post #24 of 33 Old 09-25-2014, 04:24 PM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

what did you use to bush the ends of the shock in the rear. stock bolt hole is 3/8 inch isn't it. i have tacoma ranchos and id like to toss them in my p-body
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post #25 of 33 Old 09-25-2014, 05:34 PM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

Keeping the engine cool seems to be one of the most key things in LeMons type racing. You don't happen to have any pictures of the engine bay or the front end of the car, do you?
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post #26 of 33 Old 09-28-2014, 04:46 AM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 6g72 acclaim View Post
I tried cross referencing the fram filter, Came up as the Mopar 5281090, I already run those. Are they the same or is yours larger?

Too bad I don't have a spare car to get in on this with, looks like a riot.
No, that appears to be the small PH16 that Bayley is using. There are filters about twice the size available if you look around that bolt on. The problem would be when you go too big you hit the radiator fan shroud.

The carquest version of the PH8a is the largest I have easily gotten for cheap that barely fits.

There are racing filters out there that fit, have more pleats, better design, larger, higher flow, and would probably be a huge upgrade.

I would try a Jomar filter if I had a dedicted track car. That filter has no bypass though...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper1 View Post
Keeping the engine cool seems to be one of the most key things in LeMons type racing. You don't happen to have any pictures of the engine bay or the front end of the car, do you?
I figure the radiator, if its one of the proper thick core ones, is not getting proper flow through. Seen some very small radiators on very high power track cars. Also seen giant radiators fail to cool tiny engines.

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post #27 of 33 Old 09-28-2014, 01:07 PM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

Purolator PL30001 is the filter I use for my 3.0l. No idea if it will fit in this car or not.

For the radiator maybe you could try a brass one? I used to have a brass one and It was alot better than the aluminum one I have now.
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post #28 of 33 Old 10-04-2014, 11:53 AM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

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Originally Posted by lightbulb010 View Post
Purolator PL30001 is the filter I use for my 3.0l. No idea if it will fit in this car or not.

For the radiator maybe you could try a brass one? I used to have a brass one and It was alot better than the aluminum one I have now.
that is what I use on my 3.0's. Cheap at Walmart. I would buy the Carquest but I sleep during the day. I would still probably want something nicer for endurance racing.

I am very serious when I say some of the "OEM" style aluminum radiators have 1/3 the core depth as others. Some look the same because the top protective plate is there but the core is actually tiny.
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post #29 of 33 Old 10-04-2014, 01:10 PM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

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Originally Posted by Bayley View Post
At the actual race, we run the Mobile-1 15W/50 full synthetic with extra zinc additive. It's the same stuff source for the Z06s and ZR1s, should be good enough for us.

where are you finding that? I haven't seen 15w50 at the stores in years.
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post #30 of 33 Old 10-04-2014, 01:38 PM
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Re: LeMons racing - 1992 3.0L Duster at Autobahn Country Club (Joliet IL)

This is a cross reference chart with many different brands. These filters are all upgrades from the stock sized filter.(Double check the fit when you get the filter. I did not make this chart and I have not tried all the filters listed)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg oilfiltercrossreference.jpg (117.3 KB, 26 views)
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