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2.4l Turbo Discussion of the 2.4l turbo in the SRT-4 and PT Cruiser.

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Old 01-09-2008, 12:36 AM   #16
Re: engine codes  
NAJ
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I work at a Jeep Dealership and with the complexity of todays systems the aftermarket is going to have a hard time keeping up.Most Module(controller) concerns are corrected with a flash(reprogramming) that only the dealer can do and aftermarket scanners will only allow access to engine codes(there are up to 15 different controllers) and with the new Can2 Bus system(Commander and Grand Cherokee) the aftermarket has absolutly no access at this point in time and when they do it will again be limited to engine and trans only.(Government Regulations with Clean Air Act 2,1996)
The wiring is so complex that most aftermarket facility's guess and when they are wrong it is off to the dealer or do not want to get involved at all.
It will be impossible for them to keep up with the technology and updates for each model and model year.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:38 AM   #17
Re: engine codes  
Naturally Aspirated
 
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wow got to love technology it is impossible to keep up with for the average mechanic
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:40 AM   #18
Re: engine codes  
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ok so heres another dumb question you might be able to answer. being that i am fairly new with the turbo stuff an started on the old school turo dodge. what would be a good set up to achieve 400whp outa my sr
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:48 AM   #19
Re: engine codes  
NAJ
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That I do not know because I am not into performance.I would open another Thread for that. Just be careful that you do not do anything that will void the warranty.Most dealers will not care if it is not extensive.
We had a Wrangler with a lift kit and oversized tires and it damaged both differentials and we could not cover it even though the vehicle still had factory warranty.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:50 AM   #20
Re: engine codes  
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ok thanks for the advice. im not worried about the warranty cause its not from a dodge dealer its form a used car dealer and the warranty will run out soon
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:52 AM   #21
Re: engine codes  
NAJ
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If you give me the last 8 digits of your vin I can tell you if there are any open recalls.
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Old 01-09-2008, 12:53 AM   #22
Re: engine codes  
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5d105793
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Old 01-09-2008, 01:06 AM   #23
Re: engine codes  
NAJ
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No Recalls.Chrysler does not have your info either for any future recalls that may be applicable to this vehicle.They are showing the current owner being in MO.
The PCM and Coil Pack were replaced under warranty at 30,916 miles in 10/06.
Here is your options package,print it out and save it for future use.

Vehicle Option - All
Standard Equipment
Code Description Code Description Code Description
APAS Monotone Paint BAZS 136 Amp Alternator BCUS 450 Amp Maintenance Free Battery
BR3S Anti-Lock 4-Wheel Disc Brakes CGCS Unique Child Tether Restraint CGWS Next Generation Front Air Bags**
CG6S Center Rear 3-Point Seat Belt CKAS Carpets - Floor and Cargo Area CKPS Trunk Dress-Up
CLES Front Rear Floor Mats CLPS Door Sill Scuff Pads CSBS Spare Tire Cover
CUFS Full Length Flr Console w/Cupholders CUTS Instrument Panel Storage Bin CVZS Silver Shift Knob
DLCS 2.6 Overall Top Gear Ratio GADS Tinted Glass Windows GBBS Tinted Windshield Glass
GFAS Rear Window Defroster GNES Passenger Side Sun Visor w/Mirror GNFS Driver Side Sun Visor w/Mirror
GNGS Rear View Mirror w/Reading Lamps GTGS Power Fold-Away Mirrors GXRS Keyless Entry Sys. w/2 Transmitters
GXTS Rear Door Child Protection Locks GXXS Sentry Key Theft Deterrent System HAAS Air Conditioning
JAAS Instrument Panel JBMS Instr. Panel Satin Silver Bezel JCCS 160 MPH Primary Speedometer
JFGS Turbo Boost Gauge JFHS Tachometer JHAS Var Intermittent Windshield Wipers
JJFS Single Low Note Horn JKHS Glove Box JKKS Inside Emergency Trunk Lid Release
JKPS 12V Auxiliary Power Outlet JPAS Power Front Windows JPCS Power Trunklid Release
JPFS Power Auto Central Locking Locks K48S Delete Bodyside Molding K6SS BRT. SILVER MET. C/C - Extension
LCKS Front Dome Lamp LDCS Trunk Lamp LMBS Halogen Headlamps
LMUS Front Side Marker Lampst LPNS CHMSL Lamp LSBS Security Alarm
MDAS Front License Plate Bracket MF8S Delete Grille MGBS Hood Power Bulge
MLNS Rear Body Color Fascia ML4S Front Body Color Fascia MNKS Body Color Door Handles
MTUS SRT4 Badge MUDS Dodge I.D. Badge MU5S Dodge Badge
MXMS Trunklid Spoiler NBKS EVAP Control System NELS Dual Bright Exhaust Tips
NFMS 12.5 Gallon Fuel Tank NHFS Power Steering Cooler NZ5S High Speed Engine Controller
QS2S Bright Silver Metallic Clear Coat RBKS AM/FM Compact Disc Radio w/Chgr Ctrl RCGS 6 Speakers
RDDS Fixed Long Mast Antenna SBPS Performance Steering SCCS Leather Wrapped Steering Wheel
SDXS High Perform Suspension SUAS Tilt Steering Column TBGS Compact Spare Tire
TPES 205/50R17 BSW Performance Tires WFJS 17X6.0 Aluminum Wheels XARS Bright Pedals
XFAS -35F Protection Anti-Freeze YAAS Build To U S Market Specifications 1AAS U.S. Dealer Retail
142S Zone 42-Detroit 5INS PL-Vehicle Family 594S Vehicle Order Tracking
6USS Label - U.S. Specifications 615S Indiana State Code 915S Indiana State Code
Optional Equipment
Code Description Code Description Code Description
*S5 Prem Cloth High-Back Bucket Seats -DV Dark Slate Gray CSRP Passenger Assist Handles
CXAP Additional Trim Parts for Sunroof DDR 5-Speed Manual T850 Transmission DS9P Limited Slip Transaxle Differential
EDV 2.4L 4 Cyl DOHC 16V HO Turbo Engine GWA Power Sunroof LNJP Fog Lamps
NAS 50 State Emissions NB8P Federal Tier 2, Bin 8 Emissions PS2 Bright Silver Metallic Clear Coat
SHAP Front Stabilizer Bar SHCP Rear Stabilizer Bar TZGP BF Goodrich Brand Tires
YGDA 1.5 Additional Gallons of Gas ZAKP Spring - Left Front ZAYP Spring - Left Rear
ZNKP Spring - Right Front ZNYP Spring - Right Rear 2DMA Customer Preferred Package 2DM
25M Customer Preferred Package 25M 4HA Special Scheduling Condition I 4HW Pre-Spec Vehicle Order Tracking
Special Equipment
Code Description Code Description Code Description
No Special Equipment Available
Dealer Installed Equipment
Code Description Code Description Code Description
No Dealer Installed Equipment Available
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Old 01-09-2008, 04:37 AM   #24
Re: engine codes  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ
How did you retrieve the codes?
You need to check the codes and then clear them and see what comes back.
On the SRT-4 (and a lot of later model Chrysler's) you can cycle the ignition off-on-off-on without starting the car and it will read out the OBD-II codes on the odometer (similar to the older cars flashing the check engine light to give you a code number). This will tell you most of the OBD-II "P" (powertrain) codes but not all. For example some of the codes, such as the automatic transmission codes set by the Mopar Stage 2 w/toys and all Stage 3 computers (due to MP using a Mexican automatic transmission controller to provide the 'toys' functionality but no automatic being present) will show up on a scan tool but will not read out on the odometer.


As to why these codes are occurring they are due to some pretty common things on the SRT-4. First off, from your other thread you mentioned that when you bought the car it already had Stage 1 installed on it. That's why you are getting the P0633. If you were to buy any new "Stage" kit from Mopar they would ask for your VIN number and have to place an order for the kit. That's because they use a company in the Midwest called Flight Systems to assemble and put the kits together for them. Part of that process and the main reason why dealers don't stock Stage kits is that Flight Systems has to program or "flash" the engine controller (commonly called the PCM or computer) with the different "Stage" calibration programming as well as the VIN number for the vehicle the computer is going on. All SRT-4's use a PCM called the Next Generation Engine Controller (NGC) and also have a sophisticated anti-theft system called the Sentry Key Immobilizer System (SKIS). When you go to start the vehicle it compares the VIN number programmed into the NCG to the VIN number in a SKIM (Sentry Key Immobilizer Module) module in the steering column. If those numbers do not match it will start for a few seconds and immediately die.

Another part of the factory anti-theft system is the ignition keys. Under the rubber coating on the head of the key there is a chip that communicates to the SKIM via RF (radio frequency) via a transponder/antennae on the SKIM's module that goes around the ignition switch in the steering column. Each key has an encrypted code that is also stored in the SKIM module (it can stores codes for up to 8 different keys). When you go to start the car it checks to make sure the key and SKIM codes match and also that the VIN number for the computer and the SKIM match. When you install the "Stage" kits you aren't changing the SKIM module so the SKIM is still programmed with the codes for all the keys. And when Flight Systems programs the "Stage" computer with the VIN number it will match the VIN stored in the SKIM.

So to recap, the three basic components of the Sentry Key system are the PCM, the SKIM, and the ignition keys. If the key matches to the SKIM and the VIN number is the same between the NGC and the SKIM the car will start. But as an added security feature there is also what they call a "Secret Key" code that is four digit PIN number stored in all three of those components. If it doesn't match you'll get a code. In this case the new "Stage" computer does not have the Secret Key code programmed into it and sets the P0633 code. You can try resetting the computer and clearing the codes but it will immediately come back.

The Sentry Key system is providing full vehicle protection but the P0633 code is just an additional security feature that can show part of the immobilizer system may have been changed but not fully programmed. When the stock PCM is replaced with the Stage unit the "Secret Key" code must be programmed into it the Stage computer after it is on the car and connected to the SKIM which is why Flight Systems can't program it when they are programming the VIN number. It's a security feature and designed to work that way. You can ignore it and there will be no harm or problems resulting from it but if you live in a state that does emission testing which involves checking for OBD-II codes it may cause the car to fail. But there's a relatively simple solution. If you take the vehicle to a dealer they can program the "Secret Key" code into the Stage computer so that it will match the code in SKIM and allow the P0633 code to be cleared.

Because it is not a manufacturing defect and is caused from someone installing a Mopar Performance kit on the car it should not be covered under warranty. Some dealers may cover it (especially if you bought the car and Stage kit new from them) but even if they don't it only takes about 5 minutes to program with the factory/dealer DRB-III scan tool (they may bill you book rate which is half an hour or so and I've seen charges between $50-100 being pretty common). If you know someone that happens to own one of the DRB-III scan tools you can go to the service department and show proof that you own the car and they will provide the four-digit "Secret Key" PIN number that you'll need to enter into the DRB-III. There have also been some service advisors and techs at the dealers will have no idea what you're talking about if you say you need a Stage computer programmed so don't be surprised if they don't know what you're talking about or don't want to do it. In that case it may help to print out the directions to show what you need done. From the factory service manual:
Quote:
PROGRAMMING THE PCM (SBEC)
The SKIS Secret Key is an ID code that is unique
to each SKIM. This code is programmed and stored
in the SKIM, PCM and transponder chip (ignition
keys). When replacing the PCM it is necessary to
program the secret key into the new PCM using the
DRB III. Perform the following steps to program the
secret key into the PCM.
(1) Turn the ignition switch on (transmission in
park/neutral).
(2) Use the DRB III and select THEFT ALARM,
SKIM then MISCELLANEOUS.
(3) Select PCM REPLACED (GAS ENGINE).
(4) Enter secured access mode by entering the
vehicle four-digit PIN.
(5) Select ENTER to update PCM VIN.
NOTE: If three attempts are made to enter secure
access mode using an incorrect PIN, secured
access mode will be locked out for one hour. To
exit this lockout mode, turn the ignition to the RUN
position for one hour then enter the correct PIN.
(Ensure all accessories are turned off. Also monitor
the battery state and connect a battery charger if
necessary).
(6) Press ENTER to transfer the secret key (the
SKIM will send the secret key to the PCM).
(7) Press Page Back to get to the Select System
menu and select ENGINE, MISCELLANEOUS, and
SRI MEMORY CHECK.
(8) The DRB III will ask, Is odometer reading
between XX and XX? Select the YES or NO button on
the DRB III. If NO is selected, the DRB III will read,
Enter odometer Reading<From I.P. odometer>. Enter
the odometer reading from the Instrument Panel and
press ENTER.


As to the second code you're getting, the P0123, that's one of the few common problems the SRT-4's have. The factory underhood wiring harness was a little too short for the part going to the throttle position sensor (TPS) on the throttle body and over time it stretches and the wires inside of the connector will start to break loose from the metal pins inside the connector and then short out. There is a TSB (technical service bulletin) and it's in the STAR system the dealers use to diagnose common problems but in the early days a lot of dealers diagnosed it to a failed TPS sensor instead of the real cause which was the bad harness.

It can take some time for the code to set, so if you try to clear it the P0123 may go away for a while but you'll still have the drivability issues. The most common issues are surging and high idle problems after coming to a stop. For the '05 cars there was a change on the production lines where they tried to zip tie the harness in place to limit the stress on the connector but this doesn't always work. The fix is to lengthen the three wires going to the sensor. This is a warranty item and should be covered but for anyone else out of warranty it's not too difficult to fix. You can either splice in a short length of wire and then take the metal pins out of the TPS connector and re-solder the wires to the pins or even better, Mopar released a repair kit. It comes with a new TPS connector plug, three pieces of wire with the connector pins already installed, and three pieces of heat shrink tubing to seal the repair. Like all wiring repairs involving the engine harness it needs to soldered in place. You cut the old connector off and then solder/splice the new longer wires with connector onto the underhood harness. The repair kit is available at the dealer under part number 5013999AA and available online for about $20-25 from places like here and here.

Eric H.
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Old 01-09-2008, 07:00 AM   #25
Re: engine codes  
NAJ
Human Factory Service Manual
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Jersey

My Ride: 1990 Daytona Shelby
Engine: 2.2 L VNT
1/4: 15.570

Posts: 3,813
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All good info, being a Jeep Tech I would not know about the performance controller problem,reading OBD codes with the key or common problems with an SRT 4.
The TSB is listed in 2004,not 2005 in Dealer Connect, that is why i did not find it when i ran the VIN.
Throttle Position Sensor SRT4
Part Numbers:
04606196A$
Issue Description:
The typical customer concerns include check engine light on (code P0123 - throttle position sensor voltage high), rough idle, stumbles and engine surges. Before ordering a TPS please check the engine wiring harness take-outs to the TPS by monitoring the TPS voltage and wiggling the wires to the TPS with the engine running. If the voltage spikes to 5.0 volts, the wiring to the TPS maybe broken inside the insulator and intermittently open. Then determine where the broken wire is located and repair only that portion of the harness/connector. Repeat the wiggle test to verify the repair.


______________________________________
Obviously you have had a lot of Chrysler training, Good Job!!!
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