400 whp

[The Pope]

in any event 400 WHP is going to cost you more than the engine. Axles break at 300 WHP, the LMAO flex plate type clutch and flywheel goe bye bye. You best have new engine mounts, everywhere. Booger bushings and a internal shift selector upgrade and poly suspension bushings before engine mods. Both cars I built ran 12s without 400 WHP, they did it with 270 WHP but they ate all this. Aluminum flywheel Spec stage 3 plus set up is a must for a street car at 400 WHP (the clutch that is the flywheel can be steel). I am going to the 3+ on my Omni even.

Then comes the part about how will it run. Do you want a hot rod that runs like a hot rod? idles like crap and the thing chews fuel and so on. Or do you want it to spool and run as good as stock? I would want it to run perfect on the street and then be able to turn the boost down around town. You then come back to the same old thing, a stage 3 done right. put in race gas and hit the button and turn the knob to 3. On the street run premium and turn the knob to 0.

stage 3R
Big FMIC like a Spearco
upper and lower boost lines with a BOV in the right spot and the stock one blocked
full 3" exhaust, straight through muffler, 02 pipe back.
AEM 3" CAI
trick 111 unleaded
MSD wires, coil and heat shield

Thats all you need to make the power, but you still must mod the chassis to use it. Want a better setup that makes more power?

3" exhaust, header, 57 trim turbo external wastegate
big FMIC, boost pipes and BOV, AEM 3" CIA
255 pump and fuel return system
2.0 DOHC early cams and adjustible gears
AEM computer and 1000 CC injectors.

Take the car to FWD, have them put the stuff on right. Then have them run the car on the dyno with pump gas and then again with race gas to tune it right. Or run a stage 1 and the other mods and run 12s and be happy. 300+ WHP will run lower 12s and cost a lot less. The stage 3 mods I listed but with a stage 2 and a compressor wheel mod, about $700. Then your in the low 300s and have still have a good running car with stage 2 and toys.

[njshift]

I would not say stock axles will break at 300whp . Wheel-hop kills axles not necessarily the amount of peak horsepower. I know plenty of people (running full bolt-on stage 3's and pump gas 50 trims) pushing well over 370whp on stock axles. Granted I also know people with stock power who broke axles do to excessive wheel-hop from a bad launch.

[The Pope]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njshift I would not say stock axles will break at 300whp . Wheel-hop kills axles not necessarily the amount of peak horsepower. I know plenty of people (running full bolt-on stage 3's and pump gas 50 trims) pushing well over 370whp on stock axles. Granted I also know people with stock power who broke axles do to excessive wheel-hop from a bad launch.

The cars that I've worked with are both raced, a lot. The black SRT 4 has 3 CSP year end wins, it is auto crossing all the time. It has only gone drag racing about 10 times so far. The black car at 18,000 miles was nearly undrivable as the stock suspension bushings were destroyed from racing. The silver car is different, it lost transmitions drag racing constantly. It lost 3 transmitions in 45,000 miles, shift selectors failed and nuked the trans. So with a lot of racing involved and poly installed they seam to be failing. Just drag racing the silver car hasn't lost a set. The black cat auto crossing has lost 2 sets. Both needed a clutch before 30,000 miles.

[Shadow]

We ran 11.53 at around 450whp with stock axels and 26' slicks...no breakage. But be carefull, not all stock axels are created equal! The 03 and some early 04's got weaker axels, we ran 11's on 24' slick no prob. But when we switched to 26' slick those axels broke almost instantly.

[njshift]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope The cars that I've worked with are both raced, a lot. The black SRT 4 has 3 CSP year end wins, it is auto crossing all the time. It has only gone drag racing about 10 times so far. The black car at 18,000 miles was nearly undrivable as the stock suspension bushings were destroyed from racing. The silver car is different, it lost transmitions drag racing constantly. It lost 3 transmitions in 45,000 miles, shift selectors failed and nuked the trans. So with a lot of racing involved and poly installed they seam to be failing. Just drag racing the silver car hasn't lost a set. The black cat auto crossing has lost 2 sets. Both needed a clutch before 30,000 miles.

I see what you are saying. But it seems to me, there are a definitely a few other factors that contributed to your axle breakage then just the amount of horsepower you're putting down.

[The Pope]

Quote:

Originally Posted by njshift I see what you are saying. But it seems to me, there are a definitely a few other factors that contributed to your axle breakage then just the amount of horsepower you're putting down.

A 300 WHP SRT like a older Turbo Dodge isn't the same thing as a POS Honda with 300 WHP. The Neon is putting down about 400 ft lbs + at the 300 WHP point, not an import like 190 ft lbs. They also have this torque nearly all the time, not a peak of torque like an import. Drag racing the axles are staying centered, if the engine is centered. Where the bearings are supposed to ride under full power. These cars also autocross, that means the axles are getting compacted and stretched at the same time they are hit with the 400 ft lbs of torque. The early cummins is rated at 400 ft lbs at the crank with a Dana 80 diff, the SRT 4 has nearly 500 ft lbs and people worry about the WHP? True though many that just drag race once in a while aren't having the problems. The black SRT runs Hoosiers at autocross and then BFG drag radials at the drags. They run the faster autocross courses at the drag strip / road course here. So there are times when he gets a FTD and a 12.7 the same day. OF course I post street car related info, that means dual purpose. The black SRT 4 today, with the stage one and no boost control has studs on it. Clay called up yesterday and said his car lower plws snow better than the city. They are amazing snow cars with the posi and studs. This is on the lowered no adjustible autocross springs he uses. Eibach pro kit with Konis. So the black car rides on 225 50 15 Hoosiers on 15x7s and BFG 225 50 15 drag radials on 15x7s. Then it rides on 18x7.5s with 225 40 18s on the street and 15x6 wheels and studs in the snow. Driven every day to work in all weather.

Now how does that compare to a dedicated drag car with slicks that rarely leaves the garage? I bet a race car with 450 WHP that sits pretty most of the time can run a ways before the axles break. In the winter autocross has there winter Rally cross in the snow and dirt which the black cars races in. Other than full rally that destroys paint lol, the black car is a perfect example of a dual purpose street machine on a budget.

[njshift]

Axle breakage is still more of a direct relation to traction not necessarily horsepower. Big horsepower SRT-4's running slicks will have a higher chance of breaking axles, thats pretty obvious. But saying at 300whp its absolutely necessary to replace the axles is overkill. Yes, if you do heavy drag racing on slicks there is a good possibility your axles will break but that's could be said for SRT-4's running less then 300hp. Hell you can break the stock axles wheel hoping your way out the hole on a bone stock SRT-4 for that matter.