SRT or TD?

[OmniSRT4]

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Isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?

Sort of...a lot of people think omni's are ugly too. Thing is,
next to a K-car, the omni glh looks sporty.

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Personally, I think the Neon SRT-4 is ugly. It has a pretty cool drivetrain. I'd rather have a 1st gen. Neon R/T 2 door and convert it to turbo for way less money. If I was going to spend $20k on a turbo Dodge, I'd convert my Shelby Charger to rear wheel drive and drop in a 2.4 turbo mated to a 727 torqueflite.

No worries, you aren't the only one. The SRT, and all "new style" neons, look "funny".

I'd take a 96 ACR DOHC over the new one anyday.

[mcaracter]

The following arguement is purely hypothetical as it will be years before I can buy a NEW car but...

If I were to buy one I would be torn between the SRT-4 and the new V6 Tiburon. The SRT-4 is definately faster but in the looks department I think it gets wasted by the Tiburon. Part of the reason I feel so drawn to the Tiburon (which is strange because I would almost never consider buying a foriegn car) is because most of my cars have been pieces of junk. Even now, with my Omni almost back on the road with more than 100hp more than when I took it off the road, I still don't have a visually appealing car. It's an experience I've never had before and would like to someday.

Get what I'm driving at??

[JandHbodies]

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Originally posted by mcaracter Get what I'm driving at??

That you will soon be posting for a Daytona in the "cars wanted" section?

[NetWise]

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Originally posted by Akuma You won't find a daytona iroc r/t for cheap, but you will, if you look carefully, find a 91 spirit r/t for cheap. *WARNING*: The T3 is not for beginners. Do not say I did not warn you!

What do you consider cheap? I saw 3 in the last 6 months for 3000$ or less with around 100,000 miles or less advertised on various boards and mailing lists that were gone soon. I think 89VNT4ME here on this board had a red one for 3000$ at one point, still might.

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Originally posted by mcaracter The following arguement is purely hypothetical as it will be years before I can buy a NEW car but... If I were to buy one I would be torn between the SRT-4 and the new V6 Tiburon. The SRT-4 is definately faster but in the looks department I think it gets wasted by the Tiburon. Part of the reason I feel so drawn to the Tiburon (which is strange because I would almost never consider buying a foriegn car) is because most of my cars have been pieces of junk. Even now, with my Omni almost back on the road with more than 100hp more than when I took it off the road, I still don't have a visually appealing car. It's an experience I've never had before and would like to someday. Get what I'm driving at??

Im in the same boat... I like the looks of the Tiburon alot, but in the end the SRT-4 is more effective in what I want to do.

With the current aftermarket available, I can get about 250hp CARB legal power out of the Tiburon at the wheels. More than a few of them are running around with the Alpine supercharger kit that just picked up it's CARB E.0 number last month.

Shops in Korea say the main caps are the weak link of the Delta V6 and it shouldn't be pushed passed about 250hp. So until that's solved no since in pushing it more. The blower kit is based on a Eaton M62 and its air to water intercooled. So it has plenty left in it considering they are getting 50-55hp at just about 4psi.

In the end though I think it will cost WAY to much to try and get the 3000lbs Tiburon to make enough power to run 11's on a regular basis without turning it into a full time race car.

Makes for a great street cruiser/occassional track car though. Especially open track events that my Nissan friends like to run alot.

On the other hand the SRT-4 just plain rules! This year's One Lap of America is further proof that the SRT-4 is just not a drag strip/street racer. It's one of the all around bargins ever built! The aftermarket for this car is just about to explode...

There's already rods, pistons and camshafts for the 2.4L. One things like aftermarket turbo upgrades and AEM's Programable Engine Management are available. I think it will be very tough to find a SRT-4 that puts down less than 300hp on pump gas.

Plus Neons have always handled well. Add some coil-overs and a larger rear bar like PVO did and it will rip around road courses too.

It has great brakes and there even more room for improvement!

Only an EVO would be better if you have 28K...

If you want a bad street car, you can't go wrong with either one, but if your preferred competition is the drag strip, I think the SRT-4 is more rewarding and that's why I'm saving to get one very soon.

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Originally posted by JandGbodys My friend wants an SRT bad. He has had neon ACR, a base, and R/T and has an SXT now (which sucks). He can take out a loan any buy one (hes 5th on the waiting list) or work on a TD like all of us. Is it possible to make a k-car as fast or faster than a new SRT while still spending less money? Im thinking for 15 grand he can practically build a streetable Relentless. Insurance is also a factor. Thanks for your thoughts.

Streetable Relentless? Besides Gary and a few other wrapped minded people, who would want to be seen in that car? It's funny to watch Gary whoops ass with it and considering the money he spent it's very cool. But style points, its' very short on. I think it's lucky its the same color all around.

Nevermind the K car has all the aero of a brick!

For 10K I can build a mid 10 second Neon and he could still drive it on the street, Gary's K-car will never see the street again, it's not legal for any other class of racing and it's not fast enough for Hot Rod/Quick 16. That car has outlived it's usefulness, just like Forward Motion's GLHS has.

If you want prices and a list I'll be glad to provide it for you. Len Ayala's Neon had about $7,000-$8,000 invested when he broke in the 10's and he still drove it to work.

Hell I can built enough power N/A to give 90% of the 2.2L guys a run for their money. Now that INDY makes a hi-flow intake manifold, expect many 2.0L and 2.4L car's breaking 200-225hp at the wheels on pump gas.

2.2L have a stronger bottom end but a weak flowing head. Sure it cost less to get to about 200-300hp with a 2.2L but its' going to cost far more to get 400-500hp out of a 2.2L than it would be to add some rods and pistons to the 420 engine and that's just fact.

This is not a 2.2L diss, I love the 2.2L cars, they are fun, sleepers and easy to make go relatively fast if say mid 12's or high 11's are you goal. But for slightly more I can get a Neon to run 11's and make 400hp and it's inhaling hard to do it.

So I say, keep the Neon, throw a few dollars at it and have some fun with it. Very durable and lightweight cars...

I dunno Garry's SXT looks pretty good -



Personally I like the smoother lines of the new car more and I've had three 1st gen Neons already.

Well if it's leased he can't do much with it, but like I said, depends on what he wants. With a 2.2L you'll hit a wall around low 11 second range, unless you start cutting the car apart.

Considering how much you can find use Neons for back east and the midwest, I would still look at using one of those as a base. If your looking from a competition point of view, you would be WELL served to build a Neon for the stock engine heads up classes.

Why?

NOPI is giving out $500 per race and barely has more than 4-5 cars enter a class that's open to up to 8. Most of your competition would be B series Integras and S2000 and maybe the occasional Celica GTS.

Battle of the Imports doesn't pay as well, but the level of competition is the same.

Since most of the events that both series host are east of the Mississippi, you could clean up, if you budget.

You can crack 180-190hp at the wheels from either version of the engine without sending the cylinder head out to be ported. Under the current rules package you can "delete" some things in the car and get the weight under 2300lbs fairly easy.

For the same price it would cost to buy and them modify a TD into a low 12 second car, not to mention all the DIY work you would do if you really wanted to save pennies, you could build a car like this. It would run low 13's on the motor and maybe if the budget increased enough to get it to run into the 12 second zone, put a trailor on the back, pile your stuff in it and head for home at least $500 richer.

You also have the IMSTAR series and Import Surivor series which have classes with pretty much the same rules.

To me sounds like fun and I was going to do it myself, but a series of events and the fact Im having a hard time finding a suitable car to work with, has shifted my focus once again. So basically I'm sitting out the first 2/3 of the season and should be ready to go by mid Sept.

Something to think about...

[JandHbodies]

Thanks for all the points of view. I think hes sticking with his lease SXT because he gets insurance, the car, and unlimited tires, brakes, oil changes, ect... because it is an employee lease. I think that Gary's car is what it is all about, as do many. It also may be my personal bias that I dont like neons (the newest generation is fugly, and the first never really grew on me).
I think my friend also disliked omni's and the k's for their looks, so he whould have got a Daytona likely, or maybe a Spirit R/T if it was less money. Then we heard about all the Lotus head problems... So, we'll continue to cruise in a homely neon-that is until my Daytona gets done!

[1BADVAN]

Screw the EVO for $28k it offers the same performance as the SRT, a 14.1 quarter mile. The WRX has proven to be no match for the SRT, unles you go with the STi, but at over $40k I'll take the SRT with a the Stage 3 MP kit and whoop on it.

"Only an EVO would be better if you have 28K..."

Joe Ng

[4sfed4]

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Originally posted by 1BADVAN Screw the EVO for $28k it offers the same performance as the SRT, a 14.1 quarter mile. The WRX has proven to be no match for the SRT, unles you go with the STi, but at over $40k I'll take the SRT with a the Stage 3 MP kit and whoop on it. "Only an EVO would be better if you have 28K..." Joe Ng

As much as I like the SRT-4, stock for stock, an EVO will hand the SRT-4 its jewels on a platter in most performance categories. The EVO also costs **** near $10,000 more, so it should.

The STi is about $30k.

Well I dunno if you guys are keeping up on One Lap of America, but the PVO's test mule SRT-4 is HANDING it to the factory entered EVO's and WRX. Several of the WRX's are heavily modified also.

The SRT-4 isn't anything special either. It's a standard SRT-4 with 2001-2002 ACR lowering springs, 2001-2002 ACR 12 way adjustable struts, Mopar Stage 1 upgrade (PCM and larger injectors), 22mm swap bar and 16" SSR wheels on Pilot Sport Tires like everybody else.

It's currently 2nd in mid priced sedan and leading ALL WRX and EVO enteries.

TD guys have been selling the Neon short for years, DO not sell this car short as several have already ran low 13's with just slicks or drag radials, some with boost controllers and some without. We have plenty running high 13's with NOTHING, just bone stock and a good launch.

There is about to be an explosion of SRT-4 parts in the aftermarket and from Mopar. If you can afford to get on the bandwagon, I would do so and put my personal biases aside.

[JandHbodies]

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Originally posted by dj4monie TD guys have been selling the Neon short for years, DO not sell this car short as several have already ran low 13's with just slicks or drag radials, some with boost controllers and some without. We have plenty running high 13's with NOTHING, just bone stock and a good launch. There is about to be an explosion of SRT-4 parts in the aftermarket and from Mopar. If you can afford to get on the bandwagon, I would do so and put my personal biases aside.

First off - you put 13's, bone stock and for years in the same sentence. Do you mean to say that stock neons have been running 13's for years or are you just referring to the SRT-4 with that time?
The SRT-4 is nice (if you ignore the fact that the body is now a mix between a vw bug and a taurus), but it is NOT a Neon imo. It is just like a CSX is not a Shadow to an owner of a CSX. Nowhere on the SRT-4 does it say "neon".
When you say that there is a lot of aftermarket parts on the way I say great, but we've (the td community) has gotten along without it and imho, has made us unique in our creativity to overcome a lack of aftermarket. If an aftermarket is a reason to get on the bandwagon, then we should switch to hondas.
I've been in many neons now, and they simply dont have the character, interior ambiance, and style that I want in my car. If I want to do 11's I can easily take a SRT-4 engine (I never said the engine was bad) and put that in my Daytona, mod the crap out of it and still come in thousands less than a SRT-4 and I would then have a car that is beautiful, not just a plastic clad bubble with a basket wing and some red calipers. This is my defence of my opinions, not a jab against anyone elses. To each there own imo.
Related note-My friends 2003 Neon SXT with 2000 miles on it has the check engine light on and has real problems starting
Other related news, the 11yr old lebaron started up fine today and once warmed up, laid a 60ft patch down on said friends street Gotta love tires that you dont care about the tread on

[Dion Ricketts]

I just gotta add my opinion to this one, 'cuz I been thinking about this ever since the SRT-4 was first talked about.

First, I think it comes down to what you want out of the car. If it is all about style for you, then maybe a TD isn't the best way to go. But if you want cheap speed, and don't mind working on your cars, I can't see much better than a TD.

For me, the SRT-4 is just cool. Can't say that I like the look, though. First thing I would do is loose the wing. If I had the money, didn't want to work on the car, and wanted something new, I would be all over the SRT-4. Plus, with the stuff coming on line it should be able to keep up with most anything else on the road, including the fabled WRX STi.

Now, if I had a sizable chunk of cash but didn't want to go new, I might think about a 1st gen Neon like Ken what's his name. I loved the look of that black Neon. Simple, but fast. Price would still be higher than a TD, in my opinion, and with all the Neon head swaps coming on line, not much faster, if any.

Reality is that I have a house payment, the wife's car to pay off, two kids and one income. For me, the best car is the one I own. Personally, I think that the cheapest car out there is the one in the driveway, provided you already own it.

The way I see it, I would need about 250 crank hp in my car to keep up with a stock SRT-4. For less than $600, I could get a custom calibration, +40 injectors and a 3 bar MAP, and voila, 250 crank hp. Let's see; $20,000 for a car with 215 (underrated) hp, or $600 to put an equal amount in my car. On a buget like mine, the answer seems easy to me.

BTW, ride quality, NVH, and warranty are of little consequence to me. If it's fun to drive, I am willing to give up a little, and a warranty only means you don't have to pay to fix it, but either way it's broke.

Just my thoughts, please be kind.

[Vigo]

i got tired of reading after the second page, but in the power department, the neon head swap might be the most cost effective way to go about building a big numbers turbo dodge.

i remember seeing a dohc (420 head) 2.5 making something over 400 hp on 16 psi.

and in the td world 16 psi is just scraping the performance possibilities.