New to me Spirit R/T, electrical prob diagnose. diagrams anyone?

[zeeboid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charger R/T if its a stock turbo it can be seen (wga) from the drivers side if you move or remove some of the hoses. if you take off the air cleaner housing you can get a good look at the turbo from the passenger side. yes the arm is adjustable on a TIII. Tim

Okay. well, i've removed the tranny and put it back in, taking off an airbox shouldn't be that big of a deal

I see in the Alldata image (of which I just subscribed) the adjustment on the WGA lever. I am assuming that shortening the length of the arm reduces boost... I'll take that off today and see where it gets me.

Though, even if that is off, that wouldn't be causing it to be leaking vacume eh? what is stock Idle RPMs?

Update: I checked out the WGA, and it appears to be set to stock length (as it still has the tamper-proof clip on it)

Also, digging further, I found a bung that didn't have a line hooked up to it:


This view is when you un-hook and move out of the way the feed from the turbo that goes tho the bracket to the intercooler. the bung appears to be below the feed tube and the intake air tube. with the car running, there does not appear to be any vacume on this under idle, though I can't test it under boost. Should this be empty, or does something go to this? The alldata diagram is not so clear on what to plug into where in this case, but from looking at it, it LOOKS LIKE it SHOULD go 'somewhere, like the manifold maybe?

[charger R/T]

my R/T idles at about 900 RPM. adjusting the wga arm does not adjust boost the computer does it controls a solinoid and the solinoid passes boost to the wastegate can to open the wastegate. here is a link to Ralphs site and the vacuum diagram for a TIII T3 Vacuum Diagram FSM Scan.jpg photo - Ralph Scott photos at pbase.com
The hose you found off may be your problem. Does it set an overboost code?
Tim

[speeduphoria]

thats the nipple/bung on the turbo from what I see, it is boost only(so not a vac leak), if you look at that great diagram charger posted, it needs to be hooked up to the wastegate solenoid then a line runs back from the solenoid to the WGA(the canister with the threaded rod, it has a nipple also). This is what controls boost, basically your wastegate is not working at all at this point

[zeeboid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeduphoria thats the nipple/bung on the turbo from what I see, it is boost only(so not a vac leak), if you look at that great diagram charger posted, it needs to be hooked up to the wastegate solenoid then a line runs back from the solenoid to the WGA(the canister with the threaded rod, it has a nipple also). This is what controls boost, basically your wastegate is not working at all at this point

That vacume diagram is helping but here's what i'm cornfused with. I don't see an extra bung or missing line going anywhere other then the one off of the BOV (or Compressor Bypass valve) end seams broken and was just hanging out.



If I understand correctly, the innermost line (in my crude diagram below) is hooked up properly, it goes off somewhere up front. but the bung that comes off of the compression side of the turbo is empty, but missing a buddy. I can't find a loose line to plug into it.



The vacum diagram helps, but only so much, as it doesn't tell you which bung on the turbo, and the image looks like the are ALL hooked up together.



Oh, and i'm not getting any check engine lights, but don't have a code reader, so am not sure if it is throwing a code.

[speeduphoria]

to check the codes you turn the key on(dont start it), then off, on , then off, then on and leave it on(so the 3rd time to on, leave it). The check engine will flash then pause then flash then pause longer. You deciefer this like so. blink-blink-blink pause blink-blink long pause(so that would be code 32), then it will blink pause again. So count the blinks and 55 is the last one or all clear.

Autozone had a chart of codes, but sometimes they are a little different for different years so i would try to find one online that is for TIII's or that year.


OK do this for the vac lines. Follow the vac line on the WGA, it should go to the wastegate solenoid, then there should be another nipple on that and a vac line running back to the turbo. LMK what you find

[zeeboid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by speeduphoria to check the codes you turn the key on(dont start it), then off, on , then off, then on and leave it on(so the 3rd time to on, leave it). The check engine will flash then pause then flash then pause longer. You deciefer this like so. blink-blink-blink pause blink-blink long pause(so that would be code 32), then it will blink pause again. So count the blinks and 55 is the last one or all clear. Autozone had a chart of codes, but sometimes they are a little different for different years so i would try to find one online that is for TIII's or that year. OK do this for the vac lines. Follow the vac line on the WGA, it should go to the wastegate solenoid, then there should be another nipple on that and a vac line running back to the turbo. LMK what you find

Alllllrightythen. I did as you said, and when I couldn't find the line that should go from the wastegate solenoid back to the turbocharger, I used compressed air and followed the HISSSS... cleaned up the end of that, and put it back on...

So, following the allowable direction of air flow: it goes FROM the wastegate (which is shared with a buncha diffrent tubes) to the wastegate solenoid, then from the wastegate solenoid to the BOOST nozzile that was empty on mine?

tested, still overboosts (no CEL or blinkie code by the way). are they hooked up backward? I found it odd that they be hooked up the way they are because the air only flows in the direciton listed above...

looking at the diagram, it looks like the line comming off of the Wastegate and the bottom line on the turbocharger are mixxed up, but the hozes are old, dirty, and bent purfect for them to be in the locations they are currently in...




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Edit: I double checked, this appears to be how it is hooked up believe it or not.



So, before I go and re-route a couple of these and re-cut some vac lines to make it to what it looks like in the vac guide... Is the following Correct?:



PS: By "boost side" I mean the bung that is boost only, that I had photos up of not being hooked up.

[zeeboid]

Okay, I hooked it up this way:



and it doesn't overboost any more, but it seams to underboost... or, it comes up to 11ish (my gague needle shakes)... unless you have the gas all the way down, then it falls back to around 4.5ish.

On the diagram there, the top most (boost side front most on the turbo) line is hooked to the top most fitting on the Wastegate solenoid, and the middle (bottom not used) of the wastegate solenoid is going to the Wastegate. Is this correct? Backwards?

it also deffently is missing some power from before... granted it was overboosting, but its not spooling up nearly as fast. I am waiting for it to cool down before playing with vacum lines, other wise I would just try swapping the two... its too bad you can't just swap em on the solenoid... you could I guess if I cut it, but This is why I ask, so I don't go and do stupid things.

Do I have the diagram correct in that the top-most fitting on the turbocharger for a line is the front most fitting (boosting?) on the turbo? or crap, is that the backmost?

Update:
Okay, I switched those two around, so now looking at the diagram, wastegate in the back, backmost turbo one (still labled boost side) giong to the top of the WGA Solenoid, and the middle of the WGA Solenoid goes to the wastegate. the front most port on the turbocharger, is ging to the giant mix of vac lines. Same effect as above though, lay on the fuel, and the boost lays off. I have unplugged the battery hoping the computer is pissed off. its been about 15mn, so i'll go try it one more time for the night. Can't after dark, as the headlights still don't work, but one thing at a time.

Update Again:
After restarting the battery, I took it for another drive, and it appears to not be boosting above 5psi at all... like the wastegate solenoid isn't even functioning, so I am giong to assume (unless someone tells me otherwise) that the rear bug on the turbocharger SHOULD go to the giant mess of vacum, and the front bun on the turbo should go to the top most bung on the solenoid.

[charger R/T]

As far as factory vacuum diagrams some suck but most do kinda keep locations in place meaning The turbo has 2 ports one is closer to the engine then the other the diagram shows the one farther from the engine goes to the waste gate solinoid so that is how it should be the closer one is for the vacuum triangle.

11 psi is about what the stock computer wants. If it is now only hitting 5 psi the solinoid might have stuck on you. 5 psi is about what you would get if you hooked the waste gate straight up to the intake manifold. The other thing is when you were over boosting there was no waste gate action. Once hooked up the car won't pull the same because the computer starts to open the waste gate before full boost. So it takes a little longer to reach full boost and the car feels like it isn't pulling as hard. If you want it to pull harder like it was when you didn't have any control on the wastegate get a manual boost controller and set it for 15 psi or less.
Tim

[zeeboid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charger R/T As far as factory vacuum diagrams some suck but most do kinda keep locations in place meaning The turbo has 2 ports one is closer to the engine then the other the diagram shows the one farther from the engine goes to the waste gate solinoid so that is how it should be the closer one is for the vacuum triangle. 11 psi is about what the stock computer wants. If it is now only hitting 5 psi the solinoid might have stuck on you. 5 psi is about what you would get if you hooked the waste gate straight up to the intake manifold. The other thing is when you were over boosting there was no waste gate action. Once hooked up the car won't pull the same because the computer starts to open the waste gate before full boost. So it takes a little longer to reach full boost and the car feels like it isn't pulling as hard. If you want it to pull harder like it was when you didn't have any control on the wastegate get a manual boost controller and set it for 15 psi or less. Tim

Allrightie. I have a manual boost controller ordered. when I get back to the car (out to california on a little vacation right now) I will take the wga solenoid off and test it out to see if it is indeed broken/notworking.

[zeeboid]

I tested the wastegate solenoid, it works fine. I re-did the vacum to now what I thing is correct.

she will run up to around 11PSI, but when you lay on full throttle, the boost goes down... allmost like its bogging or something. it is not for some reason liking full throttle. Could the 255 fuel pump I installed be folking it up? It seams to boost and pull just great under part throttle but the moment you press the gas down the rest of the way, boooog.

[zeeboid]

any sugguestions for why it may bogg like described? The only thing I can think of is to check the AFR, but to do so I will need to hook it up to a dyno or spend 180 bucks on a gauge. Anyone have an ider before I go fork out the cha-ching?

[speeduphoria]

Only suggestion I have is to mess with and adjust the wg arm, maybe do the spring mod? Or just get a grainger valve/MBC and see if that works better than the solenoid(you can just set to 11ps to test, then bump to 14psi if it works good)

Other then that it could be a fuel issue but if it drives around good then ??

[zeeboid]

Playing with it more, its deffently an electrical issue... the lights bug out and the radio goes out when you start to get to higher revs under boost.

[zeeboid]

allllllright, I plugged in the knock sensor, and checked/fixed a connector going to the throttle body that had a bent pin that may not have been contacting.

she seams to run better, but when laying on the throttle the rest of the way, the boost goes down to 5ish PSI, then when letting off the gas, it rises again though seams to overboost.

I tried a manual boost controller, but it was a cheepie and it is broken already. I took off the solenoid and when given power, it pops, though I am unsure how fast it flutters when given power from the computer. Any tips from here? I can continue looking for wires that are not where they should be or what not. the car will sit for a few days here, as I need to replace the accessory belt.

[charger R/T]

it sounds like the computer is pulling the boost. I know you bought it not running. How old is the gas in the car does it still have some gas in it from before you bought it?
Tim