Electronic Distributor Adapter

[90TurboVan]

2.4 NGC crank sensor output and 2.2/2.5 distributor outputs matched up:

Top to bottom is crank sensor, gray HEP connector, black HEP connector
The dashed teeth in the crank graph are the missing/filled in ones, not actually part of the sensor output.
The 2.2/2.5 diagram that got lost:


Note that this is with 0 degrees of base advance on the distributor.

Resistors R1 and R6 in the schematic should be a lower value. 10k works.

I could do an approximately 2x2x1 inch watertight aluminum box with a 15 pin D-Sub connector and mounting holes, tested and working, for $60. The connector itself would not be watertight, but could be placed underhood. All components would be automotive temp rated. PM if interested.

[rfb6435]

I was confused for a second since the two diagrams start in different points in the firing order but it looks like it will convet over just fine.

For the 2.4 converter shifting the conversion by a single sensor clock could give 10 degrees advance (360/36).

This would be a great starting point. People can adjust the cal from there but it would have them up and running without any cal modifications and wouldn't require any adjusting or added complexity to the design.

So instead of using the HEP as input we use the crank signal and then drive simulated HEP AND the coil control. The LM/SMEC/SBEC won't even know that we aren't running a dist and HEP.

-Rich

[turbo.shaft]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90TurboVan I could do an approximately 2x2x1 inch watertight aluminum box with a 15 pin D-Sub connector and mounting holes, tested and working, for $60. The connector itself would not be watertight, but could be placed underhood. All components would be automotive temp rated. PM if interested.

Clarification:

Is this for use with the stock distributor and HEP firing a neon coil (only good for hybrids)?

OR

Is it for a 2.0/2.4 motor swap setup using the original motor's cam and and crankshaft outputs with stock 86-91 electronics firing the 2.0/2.4 coilpacks?

[90TurboVan]

I DO NOT have the 2.0/2.4 adapter coded yet, and the hardware is a bit different. My above post was only in reference to the hybrid adapters using the HEP to drive the Neon coilpack with stock electronics. I am working on the 2.4 adapters, and the price should be the same, but they are not done yet. I also have no way of testing the 2.4 swap ones. All I could do is hook up the crank sensor output from a 2.4 car and scope the outputs of the adapter.

Remember that the above diagrams apply only to 2003+ cars.

[turbo.shaft]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90TurboVan Remember that the above diagrams apply only to 2003+ cars.

How does the 1995-1999 2.0 DOHC and 1996-2002 2.4 differ in sensor output from the 2003+ cars?

[90TurboVan]

NGC is "Next Generation Controller", Chrysler started using them in 2003 with the 2.4 turbos. It uses more of a toothed wheel with filled in or missing teeth to encode the cam and crank. The non NGC stuff (older than 2003) uses 4? teeth on the crank and a much simpler cam encoding. I'll have a diagram for those as soon as I get my non-NGC car back.

[jim34]

Are you saying we could even adjust the timing at the box without unbolting anything or burning a chip ? So this would even work with an 8 valve for a stronger spark ?
Does the smec have to be reprogrammed ?

[90TurboVan]

Right now there are three variations of code and hardware, only one of which is working.

Neon coilpack with TD distributor and electronics, timing adjustable with distributor

2003+ 2.4 with Neon coilpack, and TD electronics, no distributor, using 2.4 crank sensor, timing fixed at 10 degrees BTDC.

'95-'99 2.0 or '96-'02 2.4 with Neon coilpack, TD electronics, no distributor, using 2.0/2.4 crank sensor and possibly cam sensor, timing fixed at 9 degrees BTDC?

The first could be used with an 8 valve, but timing is still set with the distributor. My test car is a Daytona TurboZ 2.2 TI. LM/SMEC/SBEC would not need to be reprogrammed if you were just adding the coilpack to an 8 valve. Note that this will not work on a TBI car.

[jrbexhaust]

"2003+ 2.4 with Neon coilpack, and TD electronics, no distributor, using 2.4 crank sensor, timing fixed at 10 degrees BTDC."

Forgive me for not knowing this, but where on my '05 SRT engine is the cranksensor. I've got the engine on the stand (but 30 miles from me) and don't remember seeing it. I will want this set-up for my 86 GLH wtih Super 60 harness. Let me know when you have one ready to sell. I can tell the machinst to not make my dist adapter for the cam sensor hole.

I'll just put the cam sensor back in to seal it.

[jim34]

Wow this is cool im excited, is this kind of like a waste spark setup where it fires 1-4 and 2-3 in pairs at the same time on each power/exhaust stroke ?

[90TurboVan]

2003+ 2.4 crank sensors are on the front of the motor just below the starter. Non-NGC crank sensors are on the back of the motor below and to the left of the alternator.

All adapters are wasted spark, but the first and possibly third type (in my previous post) have the possibility of COP if you were to add two more coil drivers and use a different microcontroller with more outputs.

[turbo.shaft]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 90TurboVan All adapters are wasted spark, but the first and possibly third type (in my previous post) have the possibility of COP if you were to add two more coil drivers and use a different microcontroller with more outputs.

How much more expensive/complex would be going COP using for example the 2.7 COP setup (minus the individual coils of course that can be jy scrounged)?

[90TurboVan]

After some more research, all adapters could do COP, it looks like the cam sensor will be needed for the NGC motors. COP would add about $15 to the price, 2 more coil drivers and a larger PCB and enclosure. I even have a 3.5 to steal some coils from to test with.

We have to use the cam sensor on NGC cars because the TD computers fire injectors in batches (1+2 and 3+4) from what I can tell. In order for the computer to fire the right injectors as well as the right coil, it has to know exact position in the firing order. Cam sensor will also be used on non NGC engines for the same reason.

The zip has changed again. I redid the ignition input and fixed the possibility of missing ignition events due to voltage drop across the transistor in the SMEC/PM, as well as a random loss of synch.

[rfb6435]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrbexhaust "2003+ 2.4 with Neon coilpack, and TD electronics, no distributor, using 2.4 crank sensor, timing fixed at 10 degrees BTDC." Forgive me for not knowing this, but where on my '05 SRT engine is the cranksensor. I've got the engine on the stand (but 30 miles from me) and don't remember seeing it. I will want this set-up for my 86 GLH wtih Super 60 harness. Let me know when you have one ready to sell. I can tell the machinst to not make my dist adapter for the cam sensor hole. I'll just put the cam sensor back in to seal it.

Exactly my plan...

I have the diagrams and everthing ready for the distributor adapter all I would have to do is submit the order but I would rather have this.

-Rich

[gkcooper]

Did any variation of the DOHC 2.0/2.4 ever come with COP, or was that just with the world engine?