I need a little advice :(

[ZoskalonMPI]

My little ol heart is set on putting on a neon head on my 1990 Daytona TBI. Driving my mostly stock R/T is amazing and power is crazy, even though its probably around 250HP maybe. So I don't really want that much more power. Number one priority is drivability since I want this car to be my nice daily driver. So nothing that would make the car unstreetable like crazy cams and racing clutches (never ever another 4 puck clutch in a DD ).

I want to run around 300HP to 350HP. Please don't leave a comment saying I'm better off sticking with 8v because you mind as well post a blank comment. I want DOHC for namesake reasons . With DOHC comes much better power before boost, quicker spool, better gas mileage?, and overall better drivability?.

I just want a completely reliable and mild motor for my soon-to-be daily driver. I was thinking, what would you guys say to sticking with 2.5L, keeping balance shafts, leaving head unported and stock valvetrain, stock crank inspected and machined accordingly, used (but inspected) 89+ turbo forged rods, and good used TI pistons. And using a stock TII garrett? What are the issues with using a stock garrett? I've read that you get drivability problems with it at higher HP numbers, but no one ever says what "drivability problems" means. I've read that they're good up to 300HP though.

I don't want to invest a lot of money into something big, like a brand new turbo, before I get the engine actually running and troubleshot. I know the turbo will limit me, but I'm not after a race car, I'd like the quick spool and decent power until I get something bigger.

Everything above mentioned is what I need opinionated. Everything else I know what I need to be putting into this, like ARP rod bolts, walbro, all new fuel lines from pump to rail, all the hardware, etc. I'm going to have the biggest-I-can-fit ebay FMIC with 2.5" piping, custom welded exhaust manifold, cut intake with plenum welded on, large throttle body (something close to 2.5"). I am most likely going to run MS, but am considering just getting a cal since I'm not really doing anything crazy. BUT, I want the engine to run SMOOTH!!! Can I get that with a cal or is MSing it and tuning it on a dyno the only way to get it to feel like a 2008 car?

I guess I just need some opinions from others on what they thing about my plan. What is some advice, something I can change for a little more $$$ to get much better results. The car is going to be my daily driver, my cruiser, not my beater, but a nice DD I can be proud of and happy to drive. Right now, I'm restoring the entire interior, fixing rusted floor pans, and painting the car. I have a few crazy secret projects I'll bring up when I start them, hahaha. So basically I still have a lot of time before I start on the engine. I'm just trying to narrow down my path and filter out obstacles. Let me know guys, I always cherish what the TD community has to offer. Thanks.

[derek502]

I'm about to attempt the same thing with a 91 Shelby Daytona except I'm going to start with 2.4 NA out of a 99 Caravan. All I expect is a nice DD that looks better than my 1st Gen Neon but hopefully will get around the same MPG. My car will have AC. I'll go with MS and change to a turbo setup later if I like the current setup.

[ZoskalonMPI]

I have one more question, is there ANY way to have A/C on a hybrid? I'm taking about running an R/T compressor. Is that possible if you make a custom intake manifold from scratch, not just using a cut stocker, and moving the thermostat over to the driver side of the head? Its a tight squeeze in the R/T as it is, though, and the runners are angled towards the center. Its april and I'm using the A/C in my R/T already, its going to be hell midsummer without A/C.

I think the A/C is going to be a major factor, and if I decide its crucial, I'm going to have to consider doing a 2.4L swap or sticking with 8v.

And input?

[speeduphoria]

I know turbovanman(Simon) went with a TIII mainly so he could keep the A/C

I'm not aware of any hybrids or 2.4 swaps that have functioning A/C, although there may be a 2.4 swap with A/C in the works?, I can't remember, but if so its not running yet.

What happens with small turbos on a good flowing setup is just like on a stock SRT4, you get PTB)part throttle boost) because the turbo spins up so easily and soon, this greatly affects MPG. Also you get the classic "spike" and "hold to redline" terminology that is famous on srtforums. Basically the turbo only can flow so much air, so if you just leave it on like 7psi it will prob OK, but when you turn it up it will spike in the midrange to like 15psi(creating lots of torque) then fall off rapidly till redline(back to like 7psi) because it cant keep up

[ZoskalonMPI]

I don't see why it would be hard keeping A/C with a 2.4L swap. You'd just have to either incorperate a lot of 2.4L parts, or adapt the pipes from the compressor to the 2.5L pipes. I don't even know where the dang compressor is on a 2.4L though, I doubt it physically gets in the way of anything.

[DaytonaTurbo87]

If you want DOHC, why would you ever even consider building a 2.5? Just build a 2.4. If you want to keep costs down, pick up a used SRT-4 turbofold. They can usually be had for $80-100 and are made for a 2.4. 2.4 will be easier to build than a hybrid and would pretty much be a straightforward rebuild, no guesswork. I would run the engine with MegaSquirt tho. If you want AC, just run the 2.4's compressor. I don't see why that would be a problem. Not sure how similar the hose connections are between the 2.2/2.5 compressor and the 2.4 unit. If it doesn't work, just modify the 2.4's AC bracket to hold a 2.2/2.5 compressor. Should be a snap if you have access to a welder.

[ZoskalonMPI]

That's probably what I'm going to do, go with a 2.4L. One more question for now, with the 2.4L in the car and me running MS, are my gauges still going to work? I have a 1990 digital cluster I'm putting in the car and it gets all its inputs from the computer, as does my digital traveler. Doesn't the car get its RPM signal from the HEP?

I've heard about running both MS along with the SBEC, so I think all I'd have to do, is just splice in the SBEC to the new harness I'll make for the MS and I'd have to probably still adapt the distributor to the side of the head with just the HEP to get an RPM signal. The SBEC would still think the car is running because it's receiving all the signals except I wouldn't put any wires on the output to the coil or injectors.

Am I on the right track here? The MS would leech off the wiring to the SBEC to get its info and it'll get the crank and cam signals and will run the engine.

[90TurboVan]

The clusters all get info from their own sensors. The only input from the ECU is the tach, but MS can output that too. I don't know about body modules and stuff like that though. You could probably talk to TU or FWD and have them do a SBEC cal and not have to worry about engine managment.

As for A/C, if you use all 2.4 stuff, all you need to do is change around the end that goes to the evaporator. SRT engine/condensor in a K-car, only difference is the block going inside is 90 degrees from where it should be. I plan on chopping it off and TIG'ing it back together the right way.

[DaytonaTurbo87]

I'm not totally sure, but there are quite a few TD'ers running megasquirt so obviously there is a way of getting the gauges to work. I remember reading on here a member got his stock tach to work by taking tach input from the coil(I think) and adding a resistor of a certain value. Speed sensor can be made to work with your cluster independantly without the SBEC, or you could leave the SBEC hooked up to still measure speed. 2.4's don't run a distributor and MS is setup to run the distributorless 2.0/2.4L chrysler engines. MS's manual even has a page talking about using it on the neon 2.0, which is a bolt in zero mod replacement for the 2.4, so obviously it'll work. I think for that application is what MS can simulate a coil output for to drive your tach.

Easiest would be just to leave the SBEC installed and as-is. You could even leave it hooked up to all the stock sensors so it still thinks it's running the show. That way your a/c, cruise, speedo, body computer etc still all will work correctly.

[ZoskalonMPI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaytonaTurbo87 Easiest would be just to leave the SBEC installed and as-is. You could even leave it hooked up to all the stock sensors so it still thinks it's running the show. That way your a/c, cruise, speedo, body computer etc still all will work correctly.

That's what I would have to do. Like I said, the SBEC would get all the INPUTS, but it doesn't know whether its OUTPUTS actually go anywhere or do anything. So if it gets a signal from the TPS that its more open, it'll increase fuel pulsewidth, and the car will accelerate and it'll get a faster RPM signal, so it thinks that IT was the cause of it, even though MS sped the car up. One tiny issue though, the SBEC is TBI, it basically doesn't matter at all, as long as it sees the engine running it'll power the dash and think that its one injector is doing all that.

Bear in mind, I'm going to be running a 1990+ digital dash. The pre 90 dashes used analog signals and the dash converted the information to digital and displayed it. 90 and up however, use just TWO wires for most of the information. I know tach, speed, and fuel are derived straight from the two BUS lines from the body computer. The rest of the wires are just power to the rest of the "icons" like turn signals, parking brake, etc. So I need my stock SBEC to feed the digital signals to the body computer and then to my dash and my traveler.

Now, mentioned was that MS can simulate the tach signal. If you can simulate that and send it to the SBEC so it thinks the engine is spinning and at the actual RPM, that would be awesome, because then I'd get my dash to work and I wouldn't have to stick a distributor to the side of my head.

Thanks for the help thusfar guys

[derek502]

The 2.4s from a Cararvan or Status have the PS, AC and alt all on the same sides of the engines like the 2.2/2.5. the Neons are different.

I'll get busy on my swap in the next week or 2. As far as the AC goes I like the thought of adapting the 2.4 bracket to use the existing compressor, the 2.2 and 2.4 compressor mount with 4 botls but the 2.2 comp is seems larger. We can weld alum here at work...I'll investigate this more and get back with y'all..

[GLHNSLHT2]

bolt a T3 head onto your 2.5. Use your R/T setup and be done. There's a complete head for sale on the either here or the other site.

[omni spirit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 bolt a T3 head onto your 2.5. Use your R/T setup and be done. There's a complete head for sale on the either here or the other site.

i'd say do this or go 2.4. building mounts for a 2.4 arn't that bad for anything but an l-body. you use a caravan front mount.

[derek502]

I'm gonna use the 2.4 AC comp and make the mods to the AC hoses. The 2.4 AC comp uses a multi-groove belt and the 2.2/2.5 comp uses a single V-belt.

[ZoskalonMPI]

Sounds like I'm going to go with 2.4L. I'm going to do research on 2.4L specifics. Knowing that I can use a caravan mount is awesome. Are SRT4 pistons and rods forged? What HP are they usually good to? Those pistons and rods would be much cheaper than hybrid pistons, right?