My MPI Conversion (w/ pics :D !)

[TurboTurismo]

wouldn't using a 2.2 Vrs the 2.5 be better for all out racing at wot? adding the dual weber carb setup, Port and polishing the head, going with a more agressive cam....??? I don't know a whole lot about racing myself. Maybe the Megasquirt route......On the mpfi front, I have only seen it work with the turbo harness,pump and comp on a tbi higher compression engine.......I thought of doing it to my tbi car but haven't made any definite decision yet....But kudos out to all the guys using the tbi sbec instead of going turbo.....braver than I, hey guys I have update my site, check it out if ya like

Robb http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2291434

[DaytonaTurbo87]

robb, for fuel pump, if you go mpi, I'd just pick up a walbro 255 off ebay, they go for like 90 bucks 'buy it now' new. Get the specific in-tank one that's made for your car. It comes with just the pump and a couple little other things. You just keep your old pump frame and put the walbro pump into the old frame and slap it back in the tank. My brother's running an in-line 255 on his 83 rampage, but that's only because his truck/rampage specific gas tank never had an in-tank pump available, so it was just easier to add an external and keep the stock carbed pickup than welding the tank. But given the option of running a stock style in-tank pump, I'd rather go with that.

In theory, the 2.5 should produce more torque and hp across the board than the 2.2. More cubes = more power, simple as that. Problem is in stock form these engines dont' breathe well at all. The 2.5 struggles at higher rpm's because it's not able to flow as much as it wants, where the available flow is more to the 2.2's liking. If you're going all out and building an engine for max head, intake and exhaust flow, yeah the 2.5 would put out more power across the board, but just cause of it's shorter stroke and less reciprocating mass the 2.2 will always be able to pull a bit higher max rpm. So you gotta decide between having a bit higher peak with the 2.2 or having a bit more under the curve with the 2.5.

pmcnamara, I think the MPI setup does flow better, and a proper MPI setup with matching computer does have better fuel distribution, but if I had a choice between a mpi intake on tbi electronics or a carb, I'd take the carb any day of the week. If the tbi/mpi hybrid doesn't work well, tuning it right is a crapshot, where at least a carb you can do some jet changing to get to where you want to be. Plus I believe the carbed intake does flow a bit better than the tbi intake. What I think the best route for a n/a racer would be is to build a G headed 2.5. Mill for compression, the G headed 2.2 HO's ran 9.5:1 on pump gas, so I'd take a stock G head and cut it to get 10 or 10.5:1(you'd have to cut a G head quite a bit, probably around .09" to get 10:1 on a 2.5 with n/a pistons). For cam, find a stock roller cam out of a 88tbi. Yeah the G head is open chamber, but IMO the better flow it provides would be worthwhile. Also I'd run an adjustable cam gear too. Grab an intake off a carbed 2.2 and a carb off of a HO 2.2 cause they didn't have the junk feedback carb. Add a little portmatching/cleanup to the manifolds and I think you'd have a pretty strong 2.5 with some proper jetting done of course. Would definitely have good power in the 3000+rpm range. Then you'd need to get a different distributor, get yourself a good advance curve setup and you'd be good to go. And best of all it'd look all stock.

Anyway that's my two cents but everyone has to take what they read with a grain of salt and come to their own conclusions. good luck.

[TurboTurismo]

Awesome, thanks for the info on the pump.....Can these pumps be ordered thru most parts stores?

[DaytonaTurbo87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb Awesome, thanks for the info on the pump.....Can these pumps be ordered thru most parts stores?

I dunno, probably not. If something similar is, expect to pay $$$. I got the one for my daytona for $100US shipped to Canada, and my brother's one for his rampage was the same price. yay ebay. TU and FWD both sell them as well.

One thing I did notice is there was different styles of pumps offered. I've got a pump from a 87 T2 daytona and a 89 T2 daytona. The 87 uses a big pump, the pump itself is a fat unit and I was told the walbro is not a drop in replacement for that hanger. My 89 pump on the other hand had a small pump that looks the same size as a walbro, so hope you got the one that'll fit.

[TurboTurismo]

The one I will need is specific to my aplication I think.....My Lbody pump has the hanger and pump asembly as one unit .....Maybe the 87 Charger GLHS pump will work..I think the other turbo lbodies came with 2pumps on in and one inline>>>>>>>>.

[DaytonaTurbo87]

The older turbo L bodies came with the dual pump setup, those are not what you want. Not sure if the single pump TBI hanger will take a walbro, but the single pump turbo hanger will.

[moparfwdsleeper]

I know old thread... But looked at a 94 Shadow today with a 2.5TBI/523 setup and thought about how would you make it MPFI and it run just as good as it would if the factory did it. Anything new on this? A good write on what to get, what not to do, anything helpful on making the swap would be great!

[ZoskalonMPI]

You would have to either go to turbo electronics, ffv electronics, or do a standalone management system for it to run like factory state. I am batch firing my 4 injectors in my N/A Daytona and it shakes a little. My fuel pressure at idle was around 55psi I believe, much too high. I got a bolt on AFPR and kept turning the fuel down and at 35PSI, the car ran SMOOTH, but I was deathly afraid of leaning out so I upped the pressure to 45PSI and it shakes but not as much as before. I plan on getting an EGT gauge soon to tune my fuel as low as I can go safely.

You MIGHT be able to make it run super smooth with batch firing and an AFPR, but thats basically all still in the experimental stages and there really isn't anyone that can say they've done it and it works for them. It ran smooth for me at 35PSI, but I didn't go around the block in it so can't really tell you, nor do I know if that is the ideal A/F ratio.

I tried putting 92 SBEC II TI electornics in my 93 Daytona, and after several tries, I gave up. You need the 2 bar map sensor with baro read solenoid, turbo injectors, boost control solenoid, a turbo distributor, and of course the wiring harnesses and ECU. The last time I tried it, I got the car to start and run, but it was literally running on only 1 or 2 cylinders. Crazy shaking and chugging like at 200RPM, but I didn't have the baro read solenoid, that was it. Since then, I have found the baro read solenoid, and since I drive my IROC R/T now ( ), I can try the swap again since I don't rely on that car to get me to school everyday.

Its a LOT of work. You mind as well put in just enough effort to swap a turbo engine in there, you're going to end up with a "turbo engine" anyway but minus the turbo

Hope this helped. If you need a walkthrough or any more questions, feel free to PM me. I can take many close up pics of my setup if you need.

[moparfwdsleeper]

I am working a turbo car now, the other one i went and looked at was nice, and I thought maybe a MPI setup would offer more if I did get it as a DD. I'll have to think this one over. I like the idea, and it looks much better, but I dont think I have the knowledge to do it correctly(like batch firing.. i dont know what that is for example)/. Thanks for the reply! Ill be sure to PM

[ZoskalonMPI]

I wouldn't recommend you doing this on a DD. Rougher idle and less fuel economy. That is, unless you tune it perfectly.

[ZoskalonMPI]

Vacuum system, still needs a lot of figuring out :|


Breather filter, had to make 90degree bend to fit, looks nasty but works.


Air intake system, sucks in nothing but hot air


Throttle cable bracket, custom fab job, very effective. It depends which car you get the throttle body from. There are 2 types of 3.3L V6s that you can use, I used the one where the bracket is attached to the manifold, if you get the other one, you just have to extend the bracket about an inch or so, nothing big.


Block off plate for EGR, you can just cut off the pipe from the flange that's on there and just crimp in in a vise and fold it again or just weld it, anything as long as it doesn't leak.


Heater hose/pipe. You can cut the pipe that goes to the TBI intake and slide some heater hose over it and connect it to your heater core plug on the firewall. Make sure you tighten the clamps real good, I had a coolant leak at my firewall.


AFPR. If you use a stock TI FPR, you can just cut the metal connectors to the throttle body off your supply and return lines and they fit to the rail and regulator beautifully, you don't need any extra lines. I came up 2 inches short to comfortably connect to my AFPR, so I had to extend it a little.



Those are about all the little details that need to be done. Let me know if you need help with the wiring to stock electronics or anything else.

Hope this helps.

[capev86]

i'm gonna run a 90/91 sbec auto harness (lockup converter) in my 86 k wagon. it will make going to a turbo setup very easy down the road. but for now i'm gonna run a 91 tbi 2.5/auto drivetrain with the mexican calibration and the correct sized injectors. only parts i still need really is the mpi/ffv air box setup.

[Dustinicus]

so i read the forum and got the MPI setup for my 90 shadow, : turbo pump, adjustable fuel reg fwdperformance.com, and 4cyl ford injectors, i rena the wiring as stated on that cardomain site, and checked double checked then rechecked just to be safe, and my car misses pops and idles like crap when it wants to idle, i tried turning down the fuel pressure and still no better results, i have no idea why everone elses setups work... it seems all you guys did it and now are all happy with more power, and my car sounds like and smokes like a 2 stroke(really rich), dont get me wrong it sounds cool but it cant be good though...
thanks for listening and please help if you can at all

-Dustinicus

[ZoskalonMPI]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustinicus so i read the forum and got the MPI setup for my 90 shadow, : turbo pump, adjustable fuel reg fwdperformance.com, and 4cyl ford injectors, i rena the wiring as stated on that cardomain site, and checked double checked then rechecked just to be safe, and my car misses pops and idles like crap when it wants to idle, i tried turning down the fuel pressure and still no better results, i have no idea why everone elses setups work... it seems all you guys did it and now are all happy with more power, and my car sounds like and smokes like a 2 stroke(really rich), dont get me wrong it sounds cool but it cant be good though... thanks for listening and please help if you can at all -Dustinicus

I'm almost possitive you took those injectors off a 5.0 V8. If you did, THAT'S the problem. I ran those injectors for like 2 days, horrible, at points the car would not accelerate at all with me constantly opening up the throttle. If may be that you just got the wrong type of infectors. I looked for the cheapest looking ford 4 cyl engine and took those injectors off. I'd say even if you did take them off a 4 cyl ford, go back and take another set off a different 4 cyl ford motor. I can't tell you which car I took it off, since I wasn't even paying attention, but try it out.

If your fuel pressure is correct and you wired it good like you said, then this is the only problem you could have, is the injectors. I understand that the guy said if you have a modded engine you could use the 19pph injectors off a 5.0, but don't. I run super rich as it is now.

Hope you get it to work soon, and post up pics of your setup Nice to see more people doing this conversion, lets me know I'm not the only idiot on the forum lol, I'm kidding.

[Wizard]

THANK YOU!!

I was thinking of the 19PPH from 5.0 and such for same idea, have not bought them. Now, what about the injectors from the chrysler 3.3? They're perfect match for 2.2L and maybe barely enough for n/a 2.5L but need bit more for warmed up 2.5L that makes 150-160hp n/a hybrid. Well, what would be the new PPH for these?

Cheers, Wizard