v8 ignition module on 4 cyl.?

[2.2turboscotty]

first off i am trying to help out one of the guys racing in my class and he is not a mechanic, and he pulled all the wires off what i believe to be a chrysler v8 ignition module. i have worked on many v8s and am sure that is what it was designed for but it has been quite a while. now i have never seen this done before on a fwd mopar but he said it was working last season. i did find some wiring digrams but hooking it up what i thought was right did not work and getting no spark. i am sure that this has been done before by others so any help would be great. it is an '84 dodge charger carb motor.
thanks in advance guys,
scotty

[allmotor]

the only way I could get that to work was to use a VW 1.7 distributor modified to fit the 2.2. the old ignition module is not compatible with the HEP (I too found this out experimenting with exactly what you are talking about).

also remember with trying to do what you are talking about, there will be no timing advance what so ever. sounds like a ministocker that you are working on. so advance isn't an issue, I set my timing @ 38° fixed timing. Here's some suggestions for an ignition module that is compatable with the HEP... All ford TFI IV modules. all VW electronic EFI modules. I've used both and they were easy to connect.

[2.2turboscotty]

all i can say is again, thanks allmotor! you amaze me everytime i ask something and you know about it, i thought you would give me some help. what would you suggust i do, the way i can go is put in a module you said that will work, which one would be easier/cheaper? or i could use a good engine harness that i have from an '84 horizon with PM and just plug it in and should fix the problem. the wiring looks like something my 13 year old son would have done so there may be more to this then what i see, the guy has NO idea what was done before and the guy that helped him fix it before will not help and can not remember what he did to make it run before, if you say put a different module in i will do that, if you think that changing the harness would be better then that is what i will do. i also do not understand how it worked last season, but i am not getting any pulse at coil when cranking just power.
thanks!!!!!
scotty

[2.2turboscotty]

i am going to just try and wire in the PM into the wires that are there.i have got alot of them already run and for sure in the right spots. having a hard time with pulling up the site to get the pinout diagrams but hoping this will be the best answer to his problems, am i going about this in the right direction? allmotor i need any input you can give.
thanks to all,
scotty

[2.2turboscotty]

hey i found the site i was looking for but no help on the PM hookups that are not there in the car, what a mess this car has. if any ideas please throw them out there, i need to know what needs to be hooked up to power and ground to make the oem module work, i have all the wires going to dist. and coil. need to help this guy so we can get a free couple of hours of test time at the track.
thanks,
scotty

[allmotor]

dude, just use any ford distributor mounted TFI module it's 6 easy wire connections. three to the HEP exactly the same as the ford system (grab a whole distributor so you know what 3 hep wires got where on the module. then there is a 6 wire harness connector. you only need to use the bottom 3... the bottom is chassis ground, second up is coil- and the 3rd wire is red and that's your 12v power in. BTW there is no rpm limit on this module.

[2.2turboscotty]

thanks again, allmotor. i have an '84 ford 300 6cyl. motor laying out back and i believe it has the dist. and module on it. i hope. i will pull the dist and figure out which wire goes to what and give that a try, will be easier than replacing the whole harness and dealing with the ford starter silonoid and all the crazy stuff wired in this car.
scotty

[allmotor]

yep, the 300 six would have that ignition. I figured out this setup on my charger 15 years ago. worked GREAT. I did it to avoid an unknown situtation with timing advance, I had no clue what the factory PM might do as for timing advance in a race application so I just eliminated it and used the ford TFI then set base timing @ 36-38° fixed. so no matter what rpm the engine is at, it's always that timing #. cant do that for drag racing or street driving but for circle track, you rpm is always high enough that any engine would be full advance anyway. one other tip is to start the engine with that much advance... I crank the engine and while cranking, flip on the ignition circuit. less kick back on the starter.

[2.2turboscotty]

good info, allmotor! i was a little concerned about the timing part of that setup but you cleared it up, i will try the motor at 36 or so deg. and see how it works, on my car i have the fuel pump and power on toggle switchs so i could do like you and crank it then hit switch once spinning motor up. on this car his is run completly through the ignition switch but if we have to i'll run seperate switch. my son said he will go look at the motor after school and see if the dist and module are on it, i'll play with it tonight and get back with results, thanks again!
scotty

[2.2turboscotty]

i pulled up a wiring diagram on alldata just to check the connections and it shows at the 6 pin conector: top-start, 2nd-run+, 3rd-coil-, 4th-pip, 5th-ign.ground, 6th-spout. are you sure on the hook ups being all at the bottom. sometimes alldata is not perfectly right but i also do not want to burn the module up either. it also shows that from the left of the 3 way connecter that the first one is ground and the other 2 are for the hep signal, seem right to you? i want to get her running tonight!
scotty

[allmotor]

I'm looking at alldata and it shows me EXACTLY what I told you terminal1 bottom black ground, terminal 2 tach (aka coil - ), terminal 3 hot in run, terminal 4 hot in start, terminal 5 spout, terminal 6 pip. you ONLY need 1,2,3 tied into the chassis wiring and HEP to the 3 terminals on the module that plug into the dist. you need to cut the HEP wires, install Female spade terminals and figure out which goes where. Hint, they use the same wire color on the HEP as ford does in the dist.

[2.2turboscotty]

sorry, i went back an pulled up an '88 ford truck and it showed the same as you said. i was looking at an '84 ford truck and diagram looked like it showed different, i saw the pic of the side of module and you are correct, i will wire the way you and pic of the 88 shows, maybe some spark tonight! my son says that everything is still on the motor, sweet!
thanks,
scotty

[allmotor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.2turboscotty sorry, and you are correct,

Holy crap how did that happen. I really try my best to be correct before I make a statement. you should know I started life as a Ford guy before converting. my specialty has been 2.3 fords since the late 70's. when I was in HS, I build a 2300 that kept up with the best of the fast boys, then I put in a 289 which gave me the 2nd fastest car in school. the only kid that beat me was a 396 70 chevelle. and that was by only a ½ car i lost. then I built a 440 74 Valiant 4dr... whata sleeper. in the early 80's I bought a 69 Hemi RR, in 1987 I bought a brand new GN. besides playing with cars, I also raced moto-x, vintage motorcycle road racing (1976 BMW R90S).

I've owned a lot of unique and cool cars over my life, some of which I wish I kept. but as with anything, sometimes you just have to move on to new things.

[2.2turboscotty]

alright go ahead and rub it in, i quess i deserved that. i got everything set up but i need to get a stock connecter for the 6 pin side or some smaller spade connectors and we should be good, i want to know the connections will stay tight even if the car is my competition, it would be a shame to have one come off during a race, ha,ha. just kidding. we have a lot in common, i started out as a small block mopar guy and also had quite a few fords and chevys but years back came back to mopars and played with a lot of big blocks. pretty much went from those to the turbo mopars due to the great power and great gas milage, etc. i have so much fun with these fwd cars and don't think i'll ever get into anything else with this kind of passion. i also race 4 wheelers and my son races dirtbikes and my newest toy is a '74 kawasaki z1 900 that i have a 1076 cc kit in, extended swingarm, air shifter and a lot of custom stuff on it. i, like you, miss a lot of my old cars , trucks and bikes but my chevy monza with big block was by far the one i wish i had kept, it was very fast and didn't break alot even pounding it at the track all the time.
hey, thanks for all the time you have spent with replies and helping me out, allmotor, without the help i don't think i would have it going tonight. i'll keep you posted on progress.
scotty

[2.2turboscotty]

i was at it again last night, lucked out and car quest had the pig tail connector i needed for the module. wired it up and BAM it hit and good spark, set cam timing and she tryed to fire up, just kept rotating the dist and finally motor came to life. i found a vac leak on the intake manifold and need to mount the module and double check everything else that i didn't do myself, i also found some more missing bolts?
thanks for all the help allmotor!!!!!
scotty