supercharging a 2.5 turbo engine?

[Ondonti]

I dont know if some people here realise that the only reason those supercharged + turbo rally cars were built was because the technology for antilag and the turbo materials they were using would not last very long. That was 20 years ago.

It was a bandaid that is not useful anymore now that turbines can take higher EGT's (aka antilag tricks dont blow your nice turbo).

The supercharger was simply a means of antilag in order to save money on turbo's that were always blowing up, and to avoid losing races from the turbos failing in a leg of the rally. Current Rally cars have no use for antilag or superchargers now that they have all sorts of engine and turbo restrictions and they have been turned into low rpm torque monsters. The supercharger combination setups was just a smart idea to have a more realiable car in the days of the HP wars for rally cars.

[frostburner]

yes some of us people do, ive just been working with superchargers every day for over a year doing designing plenums, complete systems and various other things, and since ive always been a turbo guy and superchargers have grown on me lately i wanna just put them together for the CHALLENGE, its a fun project for me that will only make me better at designing and problem solving, maybe you dont get that. sure i can do the same setup as most td guys but i just want to do somethng different so i have something unique.

[Boogieman142]

so does anyone know of a source for a cheap gm m90 rebuild kit?

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostburner yes some of us people do, ive just been working with superchargers every day for over a year doing designing plenums, complete systems and various other things, and since ive always been a turbo guy and superchargers have grown on me lately i wanna just put them together for the CHALLENGE, its a fun project for me that will only make me better at designing and problem solving, maybe you dont get that. sure i can do the same setup as most td guys but i just want to do somethng different so i have something unique.

people were using arguments that included "performance benefits" of which in this day and age (20 years after anyone has played with this idea in real racing). there are no benefits.

Your argument for doing something fun or exciting has nothing to do with my argument against those who think a supercharger + turbo = horsepower magic.

What you are saying is of course, completely valid and I never said a word regarding your reasons. Maybe you dont get that.

[frostburner]

to boogieman, try ebay, you can souce them out cheap, to ondonti, my mistake, everything is cherry

[cook]

Does anyone have a clue as to the horsepower you'd expect out of a M90 blower on these particular motors?

[frostburner]

on these motors im not too sure, but on some motors ive been working with over the past year and a half with an mp90 ive seen anywhere from 100-140 whp increase, but thats only between about 6-8 psi, im sure more can be had at 10-12 psi, just depends on how fast and hard you want to spin the blower and how well you cool the charge. But these motors range from 3.5-4 liters, you would have to do a little math to find what our motors can do, ill crunch some numbers later and give you my findings..

[cook]

Yeah im not sure what to expect from the 2.5L . I dont know how you'd begin to calculate horsepower figures for something like this. I dont want to reach 300hp or beyond as the engine itself with stock internals will fail im hoping for around the 250-275 range. "All I want is a low 14's van thats it"

[frostburner]

if all your looking for is 250-275 then itll be enough, ive worked with them long enough to know what they can put out, when you start working on it let me know, i can help out on the design aspect and pulley sizing and ratios, just pm...

[Ondonti]

I think if you inject Meth/Eth directly into the blower you can make some insane power and get away with huge amounts of boost that would kill a non alky injected blower setup.

I would enjoy building one myself if I had a RWD car :P

[frostburner]

^^, yea that is a definate on a roots type blower because they are prone to generate heat from the friction at higher rpms..

[cook]

How much will a stock turbo 2.5 block handle before it has catastrophic failure? Will it handle 300 ponies?

[cook]

thanx frostburner I'll gladly accept any help throughout this project or should I say "headache".

[frostburner]

yea sometimes these projects are headaches.. i did some numbers at work, and an mp90 i will be too big for our motors, the rpm you will need to spin it at and the amount of power itll take to turn the blower at those rpms is pretty high, it is in my proffesional opinion you should go with an mp62 as the largest blower to still be streetable, unless you want a dyno queen. an mp90 just takes more to turn, plus it rather large to fit in our engine bay.. shoot me an email of how your engine bay i right now, im planning to mount mine where the a/c compressor goes, i tossed my a/c and everything for the extra room, not sure if your going to keep yours.. let me know

[cook]

You'd think it wouldnt matter about the RPM's since it is a 4 banger not a big block. I agree theres going to be HP loss in the higher RPM's but do you think that the larger CFM this blower produces may compensate for this. I've seen a Civic with a 1.6L engine with a M62 supercharger on it and it runs 11.62 in the 1/4. If you follow the Grassroots Motorsports Challenge a couple years back Mongrel motorsports ran a M90 on a BMW 2002 and I believe it was a 2.0L. You'd think with the volume of air the blower pushes out you'd get some serious ass ponies with it.