Why not AWD

[88jbody]

the only way I can see it done without major fab is to use an AWD caravan transmission and transfer assembly, awd caravan rear suspension and axles
and then a custom drive shaft from the tcast to the rear drive axles.

but then very likely you would want to upgrade the internals of the transmission and t-case.

or posibly try and fit the t-cas to a manual gearbox???

[DeckSetter]

ok here goes.......

Using a FWD engine and trans to make a 4 wheel drive vehicle HAS BEEN DONE.

I don't have a link, but they showed one on Extreme 4x4 a couple of years ago. It was a rock buggy and used a (gulp) HONDA engine and trans mounted longitudinally. The engine / trans were in the rear, you sat in front of it.

I can see a LOT of problems making this work in a drag race setup / street car / turbo dodge.

- DRIVESHAFT ANGLES. Your driveshaft to the front diff would have to be angled WAY down. If you tried to set the engine on an angle, you might have oiling problems. If you tried to turn the front axle on an angle, you'd have steering geometry issues.

- GEARING. When it comes out of the FWD transmission, it's supposed to go straight to the tires through the axles. Add more gearing from the new front / rear axles, and you're going to have a ROCKET....... up to about 40mph, and then you're at redline in top gear. This is why they did it in a rockcrawler - top speed wasn't a concern. They wanted the thing to crawl.

- UNDERHOOD ROOM. In a TD, you don't have a long enough engine bay to fit an engine AND transmission longitudinally. Also, the engine would have to sit above the front axle, and you'd probably have some clearance issues and have to move the engine up higher. That raises your whole center of gravity and it will handle like crap.

- DRIVESHAFT ROOM. You'd have to make a tunnel the full length of the vehicle to run a driveshaft to the new rear axle.

- AXLE ROOM. Where's the new rear diff going to go, in the gas tank?


I could go on, but I'm bored with thinking this through now.


in a nutshell - would it be cool? HECK YEAH! It would just take a LOT of extra engineering to make something like that work.

[joker5k1]

Post college I'd like to try the project using an evo trans. Evo's are nice and all, but I love my car, and I'd rather keep it and dump money into it than do the smarter thing of buying a new car. The other reason I was looking at an evo trans is because they're pretty abundant at the yards around here. If you're looking for anyhting else, especially a TD it seems you're just SOL. We'll see what happens, me being out of college is still a ways off, once I get started I'll have to do a video or something to show how it's done.

-Joe

[Timmay2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeckSetter ok here goes....... Using a FWD engine and trans to make a 4 wheel drive vehicle HAS BEEN DONE. I don't have a link, but they showed one on Extreme 4x4 a couple of years ago. It was a rock buggy and used a (gulp) HONDA engine and trans mounted longitudinally. The engine / trans were in the rear, you sat in front of it. I can see a LOT of problems making this work in a drag race setup / street car / turbo dodge. - DRIVESHAFT ANGLES. Your driveshaft to the front diff would have to be angled WAY down. If you tried to set the engine on an angle, you might have oiling problems. If you tried to turn the front axle on an angle, you'd have steering geometry issues. - GEARING. When it comes out of the FWD transmission, it's supposed to go straight to the tires through the axles. Add more gearing from the new front / rear axles, and you're going to have a ROCKET....... up to about 40mph, and then you're at redline in top gear. This is why they did it in a rockcrawler - top speed wasn't a concern. They wanted the thing to crawl. - UNDERHOOD ROOM. In a TD, you don't have a long enough engine bay to fit an engine AND transmission longitudinally. Also, the engine would have to sit above the front axle, and you'd probably have some clearance issues and have to move the engine up higher. That raises your whole center of gravity and it will handle like crap. - DRIVESHAFT ROOM. You'd have to make a tunnel the full length of the vehicle to run a driveshaft to the new rear axle. - AXLE ROOM. Where's the new rear diff going to go, in the gas tank? I could go on, but I'm bored with thinking this through now. in a nutshell - would it be cool? HECK YEAH! It would just take a LOT of extra engineering to make something like that work.

Plenty of under hood room.

Plenty of room for a driveshaft, theres already a tunnel for the exhaust.

Plenty room for the diff, gas tanks can be relocated.

[Timmay2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkelly27 Sorry for the negative post, but what kind of advantages other than traction (duh) are you going to gain from going with AWD?

I dont want to do it myself.. its not cost effective. Just threw out out an Idea for those that always like to build stuff.. remembered plenty of AWD minivan threads but dont remember any TD threads about just turning the engine inline vs horizontally opposed.

[sillywabbit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkelly27 lol, no one has tried it because the people that want evos... get evos. If you want to do it, go right ahead, but it will be more expensive and less powerfull than if you had just gone out and gotten an AWD dsm and modded the engine and trans that it came with. If you hate the DSM or subie body style, it would probably be easier to take the body off of whatever TD you've got and stick it on the awd car. Less custom machining, and more opportunity to put in a cage. DSM engines are also cheaper for BIG power in the long run anyways.

You just posted an entire paragraph of nonsense.

It'd be easier to take the bodies off and switch them? These are unibody cars, thats asburd! It'd be cheaper to just buy a subie/evo and it'd be faster? Evo's still cost 20k... and they are 3300#'s. How would that be faster or cheaper than a modded GLH? You're saying you cant get a GLH, an EVO trans, and do the work for less than 20k? You're saying it'd be slower despite being a lot lighter? DSM engines cheaper for big power? Do you have any idea at all what you are talking about? Answer to all of these: No

[sillywabbit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman Actually he did, heres his quote- Hence my WRX thing.

Except that he was talking about turning a FWD transaxle sideways and using each axle to go to other axles to make AWD..

As stated, at no point was he ever talking about RWD. You seem to have interpreted it that way though.

It's not important though, I already answered the question. It isnt that fricking hard if you do it my way. If I had a garage i'd do it just to shut people up!

[sillywabbit]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmay2 ...but dont remember any TD threads about just turning the engine inline vs horizontally opposed.

Thats because its a terrible idea.

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmniGTI It's not important though, I already answered the question. It isnt that fricking hard if you do it my way. If I had a garage i'd do it just to shut people up!

Chants do it, do it. Just rent one, lol!

[DeckSetter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timmay2 Plenty of under hood room. Plenty of room for a driveshaft, theres already a tunnel for the exhaust. Plenty room for the diff, gas tanks can be relocated.

ok, let's see it.

[tkelly27]

I guess I was unclear, I meant DSM (which I think I said a few times) which would mean any AWD DSM, eclipse, talon, etc. It is easier to make big power with those engines because the aftermarket suppourt is immense. The body swap was definately a stretch, can I take that back? : D Lol, please do mate up the trans and have it be lighter, faster, and cheaper than starting with a DSM in the first place. Then I'll copy you and it will be grand.

[The Barron]

.....lets put a 2.5L Turbo engine in a Kubota garden tractor... light.. AWD, great traction.. and we'll have a bucket on the front to clean up on the competition.

.....

[85woodywagon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkelly27 I guess I was unclear, I meant DSM (which I think I said a few times) which would mean any AWD DSM, eclipse, talon, etc. It is easier to make big power with those engines because the aftermarket suppourt is immense. The body swap was definately a stretch, can I take that back? : D Lol, please do mate up the trans and have it be lighter, faster, and cheaper than starting with a DSM in the first place. Then I'll copy you and it will be grand.

Just take DSM donor. Cut off body so that only floor, engine/drivetrain with wheels remains.

Form a box out of tubular steel, weld to DSM floor

Take TD. Gut interior. Take out dash, etc. Cut off floors. Weld the outer shell to the DSM floor.

You then have a TD body with DSM drivetrain/subframe (with DSM dash).

Likely several hundred hours of work for a skilled fabricator. However you will have a AWD TD (with a 2.0 dsm heart)

It probably would take four times as much effort as the double engine car and it will effectively still be a mitsubishi.

That is why I bought a Galant VR4 instead with a bent valve for $1k and am making it a 2.35l stroker with a huge honkin' turbo.

[Avenger]

I've seen a Saturn motor used with the stock trans driving front and rear axles. He welded the diff, but that broke the welds, so he made his own spool for it. It's effective, he hasn't run into any real problems since the spool went in, and uses the thing for some serious rock crawling all the time.
Now if that damn POS Saturn tranny will hold up to that kind of beating, a 555 or 568 sure as hell will too! Granted, he's not throwing 300hp into it, but he is using it to CLIMB OVER FRICKIN BOULDERS!!!!!

[Shadow24V]

i was thinking about an AWD shadow/duster. IIRC the side motor mounts could either be swapped or custom made, and brackets for the front/rear mounts. a 3000GT AWD tranny will bolt up to a 3.0 block no problem (put an eclipse 24v in my duster using the duster tranny). from that point, changing the axle ends or diff to recieve the axle splining would be necessary. a custom driveshaft to teh rear. as for the rear end, that would take some modding to get the 3000GT rear end to fit, which btw, is only 5" wider than the original wheelbase. all that being said and done, the shifter linkages, throttle cable mould have to be fitted, and miring extended etc to fit a flipped engine and voila! an AWD 6 speed P body. i am entertaining this idea for after college just for the pure *holy S**t! what was that!* factor as long as you take your time and have good welding/customization skills this is entirely feasable IMHO.