Why not AWD

[Shadow24V]

i still say that the 3.0 can be made AWD with relative ease. you can even retain the 12v motor if so desired. a bit of creativity with the motor/tranny mounts (motor rotated 180*) with a 3KGT/stealth AWD 5/6sp transmission and rear end would be a monster of a sleeper. esp. since it would weigh a LOT less than the 3KGT, and the torque of the 3.0 would make it launch hard

[phantomrt]

I dunno about that. I pulled the engine/transmission out of my stealth for an engine rebuild and even with some aggressive tilting of the assembly for removal out the top of the car, it barely made it out.

The Stealth is wider than the K-based Chryslers, so if it barely fit in a 3S.... I should take some measurements. Heck--maybe the 3S's subframe could be retrofitted to fit! The rear axle/suspension mounts on its own subframe from how it looks, so that could be bolted in, too. Then you basically have a 3S with a K-based body on it.

A lot of work no matter how you look at it. I'd rather have a 4 cylinder under the hood.... I like cars that appear to be normal, but have interesting things hidden here and there if you look closely.

[Ondonti]

Even if it couldnt handle any power I still think it would be fun to use the RWD conversion parts but then work on getting the chrysler awd housing to bolt to a 5 speed trans.

[TurboGLH]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti Even if it couldnt handle any power I still think it would be fun to use the RWD conversion parts but then work on getting the chrysler awd housing to bolt to a 5 speed trans.

It bolt's up already. The problem lays in the way the t-case interfaces with the diff. The AWD cars have the carrier splined, so that the t-case has power at all times, the shaft is hollow and the axle used on the pass side has a VERY long end that pass through the t-case, through the hollow shaft and into the pinion gear on the diff like normal. You'd need to machine the 5-spd diff to accept the t-case and it's very unlikely that there is enough material to do so.

[Ondonti]

I didnt catch what you are saying.

[turbomini]

umm a quick question. what about using a AWD mini van trans and putting that in a shadow? or daytona? wouldnt that work?

[Avenger]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbomini umm a quick question. what about using a AWD mini van trans and putting that in a shadow? or daytona? wouldnt that work?

You'd have to make some sort of adaptor to do so. The AWD trans has a different bellhousing bolt pattern than the 3.0 or 2.2/2.5.

[Phatfoto]

Rob Carter and I discussed this a couple years back, and the extension housing that bolts to the PTU and then to the A604, SHOULD also fit the A670 (and by association the A413). You are in effect driving the drivers front tire off the left side of the diff, and the rest of the tires off the right side of the diff. But I wouldn't want to spool the diff as that will cuase binding front to rear. Not good. ALso, the AWD setup is very picky about tires. They HAVE to be a matched set, size and air pressure. And my understanding of the setup is that the 3.8 power and torque are about the absolute limits of the PTU and rear diff.

Shelby had a couple of AWD Daytona mules running before 88, the "transfer case" was a one off unit, and the rear axle appeared to be a Dana 30 diff attached to a beam axle (likely a stock G body axle) and drove custome made hubs. I had the article somewhere on an older computer and archived it to CD years ago. I also sent it to someone years ago. Maybe Gary Donovan has it? I don't know, haven't seen it for some time.

More in keeping with the original theme of this discussion, Chrysler (Jeep) did consider a K based drivetrain for a still born concept Jeep (JJ) whcich would have used a 2.2 mounted front to rear, and the axle shaft/driveshafts would have driven aluminum Dana 25 axles. I'm going to guess the JJ would have been IFS/IRS and I have never found out what gear ratios would have been used.

When I first heard of the JJ a couple years ago, I started gathering parts for a rock crawler. I still had the 2.2 T2 and A555 from the 88 Shelby Z I stripped. I had gathered 2 Toyota IFS units complete with suspension parts and some other stuff. I was about to purchase a sandrail chassis to significantly modify, when I got laid off. I spent the next 60 days unemployed and sold off all but the motor and trans.

I am trying to figure a way to run yokes off either side of a FWD diff, so you would lose trans fluid or risk pulling an axleshaft out of the diff. I'm thinking an approriately splined shaft shoved through both spider gears would be fine, and then tap the ends of the shaft so a yoke could be fit on the ends and bolted down tight.

Funny things seem to happen as I gather parts, I change jobs. A year ago March, I had started gathering parts for a RWD 2.2 powered minivan. I didn't have too many parts gathered save for the front axle out of a 2wd Cherokee and assorted other little things. But was offered a job elsewhere and we moved from Cali to Utah. Don't worry, the 2.2 and A555 went to TD fanatic who now has THREE 88 Shelby Zs...

While I no longer am in a minivan, I have switched to Jeeps and drive a 95 Grand Cherokee. I'm looking to take a 86 Comanche pickup off a neighbor before the end of summer. It has a 2.5 (AMC, not GM Iron Duke) and a 5 speed and is 4x4. Rusty and needs some work. But, I'm seriously contemplating converting the AMC 2.5 (EFI TBI) to run on say a 2.5 T1 minivan ECM and add a turbo... I still have the intercooler from the 88Z...

[Ondonti]

Im also guessing there are no actual facts to support strength comments about the 3.8 awd setup. Just hearsay.

[turbomini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avenger You'd have to make some sort of adaptor to do so. The AWD trans has a different bellhousing bolt pattern than the 3.0 or 2.2/2.5.

ahh not a V6 person never worked on one lol... v8 or 4cylinder turbo only lol

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbomini ahh not a V6 person never worked on one lol... v8 or 4cylinder turbo only lol

just think how much faster you could be without going rwd

[turbomini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti just think how much faster you could be without going rwd

lol yea and it'd lonch a lot harder. lol

[mock_glh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti Im also guessing there are no actual facts to support strength comments about the 3.8 awd setup. Just hearsay.

I came across an AWD Caravan in the junkyard that had the trans removed but the PTU was still there so I got a good look at it. It has a rather weak looking hollow splined shaft, similar to the stator shaft on an auto trans, to drive the rear wheels. This shaft is directly driven by the diff housing, while the right side front axle goes through the shaft and into the diff side gear. The PTU doesn't have the same bolt pattern as the output housing we're using but it could be made to fit. I don't think I would trust that shaft, though, unless it could be beefed up.

[Ondonti]

So this shaft is what you think the big problem would be.

As far as im concerned center and rear differentials are never really a problem as centers are often "spooled" and the rear can be replaced etc.

[Phatfoto]

Here is the page on my site with the technical drawings from the 92 FSM.
AWDFWDTECH

Just remember, 3 wheels are driven off one side of the transaxle diff, the drivers side front is driven off the other side. I agree, the rear can be replaced with a regular axle. A yoke or flange will need to be fabbed to come off the PTU...

I drove one of these vans in the dirt with the AWD always engaged (vacuum motor activated or locked). A lot more fun than just FWD. BUT! I you want to get it to launch, this is NOT an ideal setup. The rear driveline has an overruning clutch for a reason. If you don't have gears perfectly matched front to rear, SOMETHING is going to break. An open rear diff will help, but not for long. Eventually, the difference in speeds front to rear WILL cause carnage. Don't make the mistake of thinking of the PTU as a center diff. Maybe if it was driven off the ring gear like in the 3000GT...

Brent, there was a 3000GT trans/transfer case on KSL a few months ago... I did give it some thought.