Finished!! Forged piston block, Custom valve head (flowbenched)

[Ondonti]

516whp 519ft/lb Plymouth Duster all over the road- Video

lol, stupid streetfire. same video but.. streetfire :P

[lookin]

holy cow


Sounds like it is cutting out a bit .... but when it isn't cutting out .... well ..... just WOW.

Please be careful.

holy cow

[Ondonti]

Thats the rev limiter plus 2100cc's of meth still spraying on the limiter.

Before the meth pump, it was misfiring like crazy, wouldnt boost, etc. Its kinda cool that you can lean misfire, because its safer then 13-14:1 air fuel and detonation.

[lookin]

Are you going to mega squirt it next?

[menace2society]

insanely awesome

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookin Are you going to mega squirt it next?

We will see when that happens. I have a lot of stuff on my table and nothing is getting done. Need to graduate and get some more exam studies in since I didnt really do those.

[Tim_K]

So you went from 384 hp to 516 by changing the fuel filter?

Fram filters are crap, I haven't used them in years.

Good work!

[mwinkle353]

Looks like you ripped up some asphalt on Las Vegas Blvd.

They just paved that not too long ago too. LOL

[Reaper1]

Brent, I remember the instructions for my Devil's Own EXPRESSLY saying to NOT bounce off the limiter with the meth on! I wonder if that migth have somthing to do with some of the issues you've been having?

BTW, very nice...as said before, BE CAREFUL!! You are a BRAVE person steering that thing with only one hand! I don't even do that with MY car and I've got WAY less power!

On the alignment, you DEFINATLY need one! Having a good alignment will make a nigth and day difference in the way the car hooks up, steers, and the controlability will be a LOT nicer! Not only that, but it'll be safer too!

I'd get it on the rack, then have the person jack the front of the car up a little(to about what you think is the height it is when you launch), then set the camber a *tad* negative with either 0 toe or 1/16" total toe OUT. This will get the tires as close to straight and vertical to the ground as you can when you launch. It will also help the handling a bit.

HTH!

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper1 Brent, I remember the instructions for my Devil's Own EXPRESSLY saying to NOT bounce off the limiter with the meth on! I wonder if that migth have somthing to do with some of the issues you've been having? BTW, very nice...as said before, BE CAREFUL!! You are a BRAVE person steering that thing with only one hand! I don't even do that with MY car and I've got WAY less power! On the alignment, you DEFINATLY need one! Having a good alignment will make a nigth and day difference in the way the car hooks up, steers, and the controlability will be a LOT nicer! Not only that, but it'll be safer too! I'd get it on the rack, then have the person jack the front of the car up a little(to about what you think is the height it is when you launch), then set the camber a *tad* negative with either 0 toe or 1/16" total toe OUT. This will get the tires as close to straight and vertical to the ground as you can when you launch. It will also help the handling a bit. HTH!

I actually have 1/4" toe in right now. Haven't messed with it in a long time. Info on toe is hard to find on the internet and after reading neon people contradict themselves about how toe changes under acceleration, I got a little annoyed.
I only did the research recently and even asking on the other site there was no help :P

I plan on toeing out slightly like you said. For some reason the neon guys think the tires toe out but I dont see how that can be possible. They are PULLING the car forward! Very frustrating, especially from these guys who think they are autox racing gods.
So hearing it from you helps. I got frustrated and gave up. I also had my air shocks full which makes the car very dodgy. Good for the track (and for getting on a trailor because my rear end lifts 3") but bad for freeway pulls.


IMO, the meth thing isnt a big deal. When people have spark Cut rev limiters, 6g72's spraying the same amount as me actually "bog" from fouling the plugs when they hit the limiter. Matt has that problem in his 8 second car.

Since we have a fuel cut, it will actually get so lean that it lean misfires, which is NOT detonation. Its not possible to detonate when things get too lean. When we had the meth pump not working, we found that it would built boost and then totally cutout because it would lean misfire (18+:1 air fuel!) and boost would drop down.

Now if it was running 13.5:1 then yeah, it would be a bad thing.

I am pretty sure it pushed coolant on the dyno and I never hit the limiter. Its just a matter of me being an idiot and adding 4 degrees of base timing. The dyno charts were too choppy to see that it didn't really gain power, it just looked like it did because of the choppiness from spark blowout. Changed the plug gap and didn't think about taking the timing back :(
It actually looked like it pushed coolant on only 16 degrees base (turned up to 20 degrees 2nd-5th pulls). Stopped pushing coolant on 20 degrees........????
or it might have just overheated for some reason on the first pull. Pretty sure its pushing right now though.

I found these and I am going to get a set in 95mm size to match my headgasket that is way to big. Then when I redo my block, I will consider other alternatives.
Gasket Works What's New


Seems a problem with mitsu cometics is that they dont really have a fire ring like OEM mitsu gaskets do. so instead of clamping HARD around the combustion chamber, it just clamps mildly everywhere :(
So using these would solve that problem. I read about people using stainless wire and adding it to the fire ring on composite gaskets but I don't want to try that crap when I can get these and they are the proper thickness (Steel O rings are supposed to stick out like .004ish from the receiver groove depending on headgasket thickness).
I will superglue them to the block. I will also make sure to back off the timing, possibly even below 16 degrees. I dont think I was knocking, but I think the cylinder pressure got too high (but didnt gain hp because too much pressure before TDC will hurt power) and forced the deck of the head to flex, especially since the Cometic doesn't clamp properly.

I think TD guys get away with crap cometics only because their stock headgaskets suck and their headbolt spacing is much closer with their small bore. So all they need is upgraded fasteners and they are good to go.

6g72's cant :(

[Ondonti]

On the technical side of things.
For some reason I got on this bump and couldn't sleep cause I got the idea for this and wanted to draw them up.
Was watching a video of my car bogging the 3-4 shift (which was because of tirespin and a short shift) and wanted to put what I had in my head down on "paper" so I wouldn't have to visualize this into in my dyno sheets like I have in the past.

Look at the huge difference the 3.50 trans makes compared to the 3.77 trans (for a523 guys to pay attention to!) 80whp drop on the 2-3 shift vs 160whp drop!!!

Then what happens when I rev to 7000. I have 2 3.50 trans, one has a bad bearing somewhere and the other is meant for my daily driver. I would prefer to use the 3.77 trans in my fun car as they are easier to replace and I guess they have beefier gears. I would still love to use a 3.50 trans in my car, possibly with a 3.77 final gear too (because 4th gear will do 150+mph on big slicks and thats unnessesary). The longer 1st gear in the 3.50 trans would still be better then a normal 3.77 trans.

For me it looks like if I rev to 7000 (i might rev higher if possible) I can make due with the 3.77 trans and not lose as much power as I do when shifting at 6200 (stock 3.0 limiter).
This changes the 160whp and 80whp 2-3 gear change drops to only
40whp 3.77 and 10whp 3.50. Factor in the other gear changes and this will = much better E.T.'s assuming you can put the power down. Gaining a half second in a 9-12 second car by just messing with the transmission or the shift points! :eyebrows:



When you do this kind of thing, also think about torque multiplication. Even though your HP might be dropping off in some motor setups, the moment you shift gears, your torque output will drop about 25-30% so as long as its safe to rev higher, I wouldn't shift until HP was about 20% less then what it will be when you shift!
150whp in 3rd gear will accelerate faster then 180whp in 4th gear. Even if power feels like it disappeared, gearing doesn't lie. The moment you shift it will BE even slower. People ignore that because of the drivetrain shock they feel on the shift. Let it ride out a little longer and hit the next gear in the sweet spot!

For my motor, its obvious that I would shift at the redline, even if power dropped off 75+whp at 7000 (unlikely, my cam gears are advanced 4 degrees right now trying to fatten up my powerband).






Actually it looks like I messed these up. The only difference should be the lines extending to 7k rpms not 6.7k. The lines are correct otherwise. I need to sleep so I will fix these later. I think they are pretty cool.

[Reaper1]

Brent, you are correct that the tires WILL toe IN under acceleration becuase they are PULLING the car.

(not to get confusing, but the exact opposite happens on a RWD car becuase the front wheels are being pushed, to they tend to toe out)

I'd personally be carful with those o-ring things. The Cometic gaskets are MLS, and I don't know what their surface hardness is. I'd make dead sure they are harder than the gasket if I read their description on how they are supposed to work correctly.

Also, did you spray the gaskets with sealant compound when you installed them? This si STANDARD procedcure with the 2.0/2.4 stuff at the dealerships and the stock MLS gaskets are KNOWN to not seal if that isn't done.

As for o-ringing the block. I think it's a PITA and that there are options besides that out there. You *may* be at the point with that engine where it's needed, but I don't think so. Of course you know a bit more about them than I do currently, so....

If you can control the pressure rise in the cylinder via cam and ignition timing, you may be able to "solve" your issue, BUT, it may come at the expense of overall power output. :(

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper1 Brent, you are correct that the tires WILL toe IN under acceleration becuase they are PULLING the car. (not to get confusing, but the exact opposite happens on a RWD car becuase the front wheels are being pushed, to they tend to toe out) I'd personally be carful with those o-ring things. The Cometic gaskets are MLS, and I don't know what their surface hardness is. I'd make dead sure they are harder than the gasket if I read their description on how they are supposed to work correctly. Also, did you spray the gaskets with sealant compound when you installed them? This si STANDARD procedcure with the 2.0/2.4 stuff at the dealerships and the stock MLS gaskets are KNOWN to not seal if that isn't done. As for o-ringing the block. I think it's a PITA and that there are options besides that out there. You *may* be at the point with that engine where it's needed, but I don't think so. Of course you know a bit more about them than I do currently, so.... If you can control the pressure rise in the cylinder via cam and ignition timing, you may be able to "solve" your issue, BUT, it may come at the expense of overall power output. :(

Pinning the heads doesn't work. The only think that has been proven to work is a tiny bore and 92mm stock MLS headgasket or O rings or both. Some cant get away with the small bore/MLS. I am not going to be satisfied trying to hurt torque to save the headgasket seal. 500ft/lb isn't too much to seal. I want to be able to break this cast crankshaft :P

Steel O rings on MLS gaskets is pretty popular in the Import crowd. The block is junk so I will install them blockside down. I would rather find out if that seals then build a new block (that will have better ringseal and even higher combustion pressure) and then have problems sealing again. If I cant seal this, then I will go copper headgasket (bore a 93mm to 94mm to get a tight fit and not use some rediculous huge 95mm gasket if thats possible to bore copper gaskets) and O ring that or use these devices again.

I can either find out some information for this platform or avoid the subject by not pushing things.

Yeah, both my gaskets are coppersprayed because I had to tear the block apart after running 5 miles :P

[Ondonti]

Here is why I don't have faith in Cometics.
Its why nobody in the mitsu world has any luck with them.
This is a test done using pressure sensative film.

These are evo headgaskets. The 6g72 Cometic, I dont think it has any fire ring at all. Its like running a copper gasket without an O ring.

Remember even 12 valve OEM paper gaskets pop pistons before the gasket. They do have a nice fire ring, but that wont work with a big bore.

All Head Gaskets are Not Created Equal | Beyond The Dyno

[Reaper1]

Interesting. I don't know what that really proves for the TD applications or your though. Honestly, that could be jsut that particular design. True, I'm going with the bennefit of the doubt, devil's advocate here, but I don't think you can pigeon hole a company's product based on ONE test! If that were the case NONE of use would be driving Dodges!! LOL

Plenty of high power TD guys have used these HG's with success. It may be true that it has something to do with the inherant design of the block and such.

I suppose that's why there's different options out there.

I agree with you though...if you are going to go o-ring, then do it to the block, NOT your heads! This is a pain, and expensive. It WILL require the propper HG. Contrary to some people's beleife you do NOT need a receiver groove in the head if the wire is the propper size...which should be determined by the machinist. If you do go o-ring, I'd dump the MLS and go to dead soft copper with inpregnated o-rings around the oil and coolant holes. Expensive, but they DO work!

One last thing....the spray sealant MOPAR uses on the MLS 2.0/2.4 HG's is NOT copper spray. I'm not 100% on what it is, but I do know that without it those things do NOT seal for crap! It HAS to be used! Maybe something to look in to before you go o-ringing and stuff!