Finished!! Forged piston block, Custom valve head (flowbenched)

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper1 Interesting. I don't know what that really proves for the TD applications or your though. Honestly, that could be jsut that particular design. True, I'm going with the bennefit of the doubt, devil's advocate here, but I don't think you can pigeon hole a company's product based on ONE test! If that were the case NONE of use would be driving Dodges!! LOL Plenty of high power TD guys have used these HG's with success. It may be true that it has something to do with the inherant design of the block and such. I suppose that's why there's different options out there. I agree with you though...if you are going to go o-ring, then do it to the block, NOT your heads! This is a pain, and expensive. It WILL require the propper HG. Contrary to some people's beleife you do NOT need a receiver groove in the head if the wire is the propper size...which should be determined by the machinist. If you do go o-ring, I'd dump the MLS and go to dead soft copper with inpregnated o-rings around the oil and coolant holes. Expensive, but they DO work! One last thing....the spray sealant MOPAR uses on the MLS 2.0/2.4 HG's is NOT copper spray. I'm not 100% on what it is, but I do know that without it those things do NOT seal for crap! It HAS to be used! Maybe something to look in to before you go o-ringing and stuff!

On Copper headgaskets that are O ringed you are supposed to use freaking expensive Hylomar gasket spray.
The .004" steel ring is perfect for steel to steel gasket from what i know.


I was looking at old pictures I have of the Cometic and it has no fire ring at all. Just a funny v shaped indent around each cylinder in the thin metal top and bottom layers. The Evo gasket looks better then what we have.
You remember our oil steel 3.0 intake and exhaust gaskets? they were MLS...and thats pretty much all the cometic is. 5 layers of flat metal.

I think its a matter of companies thinking we don't need real parts and that we are just buying them because of the name, not because we have actual performance goals. Someone else got screwed by SCE headgasket company. Even Cometic has been talked to about their headgaskets and they say "oh well it works on our shop car" Which we all know doesn't exist.

Do you think its possible to bore a 93mm copper gasket to 94mm? (for future reference).

[Reaper1]

^^depends on the thickness, I honestly think it would be very tricky to do without messing up the gasket.

As far as the expensive spray is concered, Brent, come on dude! I'm not saying throw the money at that idea to see if it works, obviously do the research first, but how much have you already thrown at this thing in different places? I think if it's a viable option you should look in to it. It's BOUND to be less expensive and less time consuming than o-ringing the block itself. Clearly there are guys out there that have probably been down that road before on the 3Si side...see what they say...

I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of o-ringing if there is a way to get around it. Maybe in this case there isn't, but *I* would exhaust my resources to get aorund it first! LOL

[whE3Ls]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti Streetfire seems to be the problem.

you really need some better tuning. i might know some one with a mega squirt he wants to get rid of.

[Ondonti]

There isn't a way around it unless the decision is to limit Torque to 400ft/lb which is not reasonable.

The shop race cars found the only way was O-rings.
And the hylomar spray is used WITH the O-ring'd block and copper gasket because other stuff is likely to leak at the water passages.

Matt Monett is going O ring with MLS gasket this season.

Only thing that has ever stopped a head from pushing coolant is O-rings. One guy got his car to stop pushing but he had to pull so much timing that he lost ridiculous amounts of power. He went O rings cause he couldn't put up with that.

Its the torque that kills it and I cant kill off torque unless someone can get me safely reving 2000 rpms higher. Even then, for a non daily driver, it just makes sense.

Why have a car that I cant even use race gas or e85 in because it cant seal the heads if it makes more power. I cant even max out pump gas.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper1 ^^depends on the thickness, I honestly think it would be very tricky to do without messing up the gasket. As far as the expensive spray is concered, Brent, come on dude! I'm not saying throw the money at that idea to see if it works, obviously do the research first, but how much have you already thrown at this thing in different places? I think if it's a viable option you should look in to it. It's BOUND to be less expensive and less time consuming than o-ringing the block itself. Clearly there are guys out there that have probably been down that road before on the 3Si side...see what they say... I'll admit, I'm not a big fan of o-ringing if there is a way to get around it. Maybe in this case there isn't, but *I* would exhaust my resources to get aorund it first! LOL

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by whE3Ls you really need some better tuning. i might know some one with a mega squirt he wants to get rid of.

There are no tuning issues in this video.........Those were before the video.

I have a MS setup its just not installed. I am contemplating installing a bone stock 3.0 motor with no turbo in the duster for learning MS with when I get time this spring.
I think a stock motor would be easier to get running and then I could build some base maps and learn on a motor that could pretty much never blow up without a little boost. It would be nice and slow (46mm tb even) and not get me into trouble.

[menace2society]

^ that sounds like an excellent idea and it sounds hard to do.

[GentleCowboy]

Gorgeous heads, what size valves did you use? I just picked up the 3.0 convertible yesterday and I am broke now. But the work is on it's way...yeeehaw

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleCowboy Gorgeous heads, what size valves did you use? I just picked up the 3.0 convertible yesterday and I am broke now. But the work is on it's way...yeeehaw

They are +2 intake +1 exhaust.

Might have gone bigger on the exhaust if I could do it over again. Like a +2 +2 or +1 +2/3 whatever I could fit.

[GentleCowboy]

what is the actual stock size?

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GentleCowboy what is the actual stock size?

Here is an old email from Mike Mulhern at KMP. I was never able to find the valve sizes through any book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Exhaust: Face Diameter: 35.18mm - 35.24mm (For some reason the face wasn't totally round) Face Height: 2mm (above the angled portion) Stem Diameter: 7.94mm Face Recess Diameter: 21.5mm Face Recess Depth: 0.5mm Length: 102.83mm Note: The face of the valve has a flat indention in it. You could almost set a nickel into it. Intake: Face Diameter: 43mm (For some reason the face wasn't totally round) Face Height: 2mm (above the angled portion) Stem Diameter: 7.96mm Length: 103.49mm Note: The entire face of the valve is slightly concave. The center has a dip in it a little bigger than an M&M. It looks to be approximately 4mm deep.

[GentleCowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti Do you think its possible to bore a 93mm copper gasket to 94mm? (for future reference).

Yes it can be done, you have to make two plates not thinner than 3/8ths
and bore a 94 mm hole with the head bolt pattern for each cylinder. then you sandwich the gasket between the two plates and remove the .5 MM or .020" per side material.

[GentleCowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti Here is an old email from Mike Mulhern at KMP. I was never able to find the valve sizes through any book.

So it is actually 8 MM (5/16") difference in the OD. impressive!!

[Ondonti]

Wanted to share this cool picture of 6 broken plugs. These were the plugs in the car during the race with the sentra, the first dyno, and the race with the Turbo Galant. I think they broke during the race with the Galant because they are stock heat range.
2 steps colder in the motor right now. I previously tried colder plugs before racing the Sentra but the super cold plugs I bought wouldnt even start so I had to throw stock plugs in to get the car running again.

During this race
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/4...The_205383.htm

Audible at the end of the 2nd pull is me saying "thats not good"
and in the end of the 3rd pull "its not accelerating anymore"

[Reaper1]

Have you considered going to non-projector style plugs? That might help out in this case. I don't remember how far the plugs go in to the chambers, so you might want to look at that first, but I know on the 8V cars it works GREAT, you get less detonation , fewer broken plugs, ect.....

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reaper1 Have you considered going to non-projector style plugs? That might help out in this case. I don't remember how far the plugs go in to the chambers, so you might want to look at that first, but I know on the 8V cars it works GREAT, you get less detonation , fewer broken plugs, ect.....

The recessed plugs are the ones that wouldn't start.
They were probably too cold for this motor too.
I only put these in cause they are the only other plugs I had on hand and they start!
And they work great on low boost.

I have champion 9's in right now (2 steps colder then stock) and the BPRES9 (or whatever the recessed one is) NGK would not start, but thats like 4 steps colder or something.