Interest in 3.0 Plenum Spacers?

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m90daytona here is the theory http://mgcgti.clarkeandclarke.co.uk/Page28.html you are entitled to your opinion but i asked the question in my first post and nobody has answered it. is the spacer going to add or subtract horse power? if it adds, then maybe i will spring for one. my guess is it doesnt but nobody has been able to confirm either way. i feel satisfied w/ the amount of torque my car produces and would even be willing to sacrifice some if it would peak better but not the other way around. btw brent, what where your peek torque numbers/rpm on your last turbo set-up?

Dont know about peak torque. Peak HP was probably 5700rpms.

You could add 4" onto the runners and I dont think it would make much of a difference. Why do you think they have the infamous "torque" tube and also the divider in the newer plenums?? to get even more low end torque.

The runners are already VERY long, Adding 1" isnt going to really make a difference.

[NA2ndgen]

Taking that sharp bend out does though.

[440trk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m90daytona here is the theory http://mgcgti.clarkeandclarke.co.uk/Page28.html you are entitled to your opinion but i asked the question in my first post and nobody has answered it. is the spacer going to add or subtract horse power? if it adds, then maybe i will spring for one. my guess is it doesnt but nobody has been able to confirm either way. i feel satisfied w/ the amount of torque my car produces and would even be willing to sacrifice some if it would peak better but not the other way around.

Changing the intake runner length will effect BOTH the HP and Torque. A longer runner will USUALLY make more torque than a shorter runner, but run out of RPM faster. A shorter runner will USUALLY make less torque THAN A LONG RUNNER, but make power farther up the power band. The plenum feeding the runners is also very important. A large plenum will lessen the effect of a long runner, as where a small plenum will have a larger impact on a long runner. Flow also has to be considered. Traditionally, a "Tunnel Ram" intake has rather long runners....but will generally yield more of a HP increase than a Torque increase....again, the plenum has a lot to do with it. Lengthening the intake runners on a 3.0 should benefit both HP and Torque, over the stock setup due to the already short intake runner, combined with the rather large plenum area. If you've already removed the divider in your intake,you've increased the plenum capacity (air flow no longer has a center divider to bounce off of) as seen by any one cylinder....but also opened up the possiblilty of cross plenum air pulses. At this point, making the runners a bit longer should help both HP and torque.

As for the HP vs. Torque argument....I'll take an increase in torque any day over an increase in HP. They are actually relative to one another, but an increase in Torque will make a 1/4 mile improvement 99% of the time(providing you can get traction)....an increase in HP will not ALWAYS make an improvement in 1/4 mile times. It depends on WHEN that HP is made, and for how long. Torque increases are low-mid RPM, and don't usually tend to be as Peaky as HP increases. Torque is also the reason a 7000 lb Cummin's Turbo Diesel truck can be made to run sub 13 second 1/4 miles times without 1500hp. (ok...1500HP is WAY over the required to do this...but you get the idea)

This is the same reason an 600 HP Supra *usually* can't run 11's, while a 500 HP Big Block CAN. The Supra will be a slug until it spools up, as where the Torque of the Big Block will get the car moving NOW.

[Ondonti]

I wouldnt say the runners are "short" They are short compared to some other mitsibushi v6 plenums true.


The volume of a newer ported plenum is about 180 cubic inches.........which is a very big plenum for most cars to have stock. overall its not the greatest design, but adding an inch isnt going to make a huge difference.

I do know that an intake runner length that works for one motor may be all wrong for another. Our heads to have pretty large intake ports compared to the size of the intake valve, so I would say that a longer intake port is just going to help create velocity. Maybe, maybe maybe maybe.
Im building an intake with VERY short intake runners so we will see how that goes. I think I only have about 5" of runner before the intake port. I am purposely trying to increase the upper RPM power......do everything I can to make up for any deficiencies in the 12v heads.

Personally I dont care about the spacers as a Modification, I just like having my plenum reversed.

[m90daytona]

a 600 hp supra cant run 11's? it will usually run 10's and trap higher than any big block will. not to get off the subject but the fastest 6spd 1/4 mile car in the world is a supra. dont believe me then look it up.

[irocelectric93]

Why are we talking about other cars and other engines still? Why can't we ever stay on topic? Im interested in the spacers ...for reversing reasons and otherwise. Just add my name to the list.

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m90daytona a 600 hp supra cant run 11's? it will usually run 10's and trap higher than any big block will. not to get off the subject but the fastest 6spd 1/4 mile car in the world is a supra. dont believe me then look it up.

This almost makes sense.

Then again, how many muscle cars have a 6 speed. Zero. z06's and cobras are not muscle cars.

The fastest 6 speed supra is Ryan Woon, #2 is Cody here in Salt Lake.
He has a much more respectful view of other cars then you do and he actually owns the 2nd fastest 6sp supra.


The question in this thread is if people want spacers. If you dont want them, then dont buy them. I have a set and they are very useful.

[m90daytona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti This almost makes sense. Then again, how many muscle cars have a 6 speed. Zero. z06's and cobras are not muscle cars. The fastest 6 speed supra is Ryan Woon, #2 is Cody here in Salt Lake. He has a much more respectful view of other cars then you do and he actually owns the 2nd fastest 6sp supra.

because you know me so well... i respect most cars. and if you knew me then you would know i LOVE big blocks and muscle cars. i would never buy a supra. i enjoy the competition that is going on right now between the 6spd tt viper and 6spd supra that are breaking eachothers 1/4 mile records almost on a weekly basis. and i find myself rooting for the viper because i love american cars. i just dont agree when people say 600hp supras rarely break 11 second 1/4 miles. if you agree w/ that statement then you are entitled to your opinion.

[Ntrain2k]

600 HP supras rarely break 11's because most of the owners spent all of their money on the motor, and not much on the rest of the setup. Because of this they run street tires so they don't break things by hooking up.

Now you two hug each other and make up.

Back on topic...

[m90daytona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ntrain2k 600 HP supras rarely break 11's because most of the owners spent all of their money on the motor, and not much on the rest of the setup. Because of this they run street tires so they don't break things by hooking up. Now you two hug each other and make up. Back on topic...

dually noted...now what i would love to see is a dyno on these spacers. maybe a couple runs w/ out the spacers and a couple runs w/ them. i would even flip a couple bucks toward someone who would like to be the test dummy i would def. spring for one if i knew it would help. i mean, we know that intakes, exhaust, cams, tb, etc...have their benefit to our cars and there is no question about them but i am alittle sceptical about the spacer... i think it may even do more harm than good.

anyone got cheap access to a dyno?

[Ondonti]

Im going to be hitting the dyno but I wont be testing spacers :P

[m90daytona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti Im going to be hitting the dyno but I wont be testing spacers :P

oh, did you get your crank figured out yet?

[440trk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m90daytona a 600 hp supra cant run 11's? it will usually run 10's and trap higher than any big block will. not to get off the subject but the fastest 6spd 1/4 mile car in the world is a supra. dont believe me then look it up.

....First of all, I said

Quote:

" 600 HP Supra *usually* can't run 11's".

I didn't say it was impossible, only uncommon. The sad reality, is that a 500hp (that's 100hp LESS) Big Block can and usually will run mid-low 11's all day long....and POSSIBLY even dip into the 10's, depending on the setup. I can't say I recall ever seeing a 10 sec. Supra that "only" had 600hp. I've seen MID-11 sec. 600-625hp Supra's.. Sure, a few exist, but MOST of them are dyno queens. Lack of torque is WHY the MPH will be higher to get the SAME ET...not to mention the additional wear and tear on the driveline components revving the thing to the high heavens to MAKE that HP.

Hence my original response (which WAS related to the post), as the question was asked regarding the effect of the intake spacers.

Not trying to argue (or hijack the post...sorry bout that) it's just that removing torque to make more HP is counter productive(unless you are severly traction limited)....but hey, if that's what ya wanna do, more power to ya.

I'm not bashing the Supra's mind you...I was only using them as an example.


We now return you to your previously hijacked thread....

On-topic related:
Lengthening the runners AND smoothing that transition, along with the already ample plenum size on a 3.0, should increase both HP and Torque. By how much? I Don't know....and a Dyno test would be interesting. Hopefully the increase is enough to make them a viable upgrade.

Again... sorry for the hijack.

[m90daytona]

i am not convinced of that :( according to the link i posted, increasing the intake runner length could drastically affect the resonance of the air and decrease both hp and torque. if we could test this product and it helped then i would for sure get one but i dont want to throw money away on something that may actually hurt my cars performance.

[Ntrain2k]

A true dyno test should involve a stock upper, a ported upper, and a ported upper with the divider removed.