Rising Rate Fuel Pressue Regulators used for turbo setups (actual info only please!)

[m90daytona]

plus the fuel should cool them too.

[ecs]

I'm still waiting on the main flaw of the RRFPR.

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecs I'm still waiting on the main flaw of the RRFPR.

Well its already been mentioned. I can sum it up though, the main flaw is how it works.

[mwinkle353]

main flaw is the way it works. You can only use certain flows of injectors. Or you'll be too rich down low or too lean up high. And the fact that the injection is only a coarse tuning. If you want to take full use of one of these, you'll need to employ the use of a device to alter the map voltage the pcm sees, to fine tune the injection pulse. Then you'll need a device to alter the ignition timing. By the time you're all said and done installing these "band-aid" fixes, you'd be better off running a stand alone injection/ignitions system.

[ecs]

If mwinkle is correct then it hasn't been mentioned. The only things that have been mentioned so far is the injector calculator and the pulse width unless I missed something.

And mwinkle are you refering to the RRFPR or the AFPR? I can understand how it would be rich down low and lean up high with a AFPR but a RRFPR would keep the idle stock, and acceleration under vacuum it would still keep the stock fuel rate until it hits acceleration under boost which it starts raising fuel pressure according to boost.

Mwinkle, I do agree that using a stand alone system is the absolute best way to go, however I do have a question for you pertaining to the first page of this thread. Will it ever come to the point where the cal or stand alone will need an AFPR or a RRFPR? The way I see it, if you need to adjust the fuel pressure and drop more money for another component then it's time for some different injectors.

Ondonti, can you provide an example of this?
"I would liek to point out that you need to exponentially increase fuel pressure ans you increase boost."

[m90daytona]

a rrfpr is the same as a regular fpr except that it is adjustable. i know some dont like the way they work or how they work but that doesnt negate the fact that alot of people do like them and have success w/ them. combine a rrfpr w/ a standalone ecu and the skies the limit w/ fuel management.

[mwinkle353]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecs If mwinkle is correct then it hasn't been mentioned. The only things that have been mentioned so far is the injector calculator and the pulse width unless I missed something. And mwinkle are you refering to the RRFPR or the AFPR? I can understand how it would be rich down low and lean up high with a AFPR but a RRFPR would keep the idle stock, and acceleration under vacuum it would still keep the stock fuel rate until it hits acceleration under boost which it starts raising fuel pressure according to boost. Mwinkle, I do agree that using a stand alone system is the absolute best way to go, however I do have a question for you pertaining to the first page of this thread. Will it ever come to the point where the cal or stand alone will need an AFPR or a RRFPR? The way I see it, if you need to adjust the fuel pressure and drop more money for another component then it's time for some different injectors. Ondonti, can you provide an example of this? "I would liek to point out that you need to exponentially increase fuel pressure ans you increase boost."

If you use too large of injector, you'll never get it to fire the little bit of fuel needed for a clean idle (with the stock calibration). No matter how low your fuel pressure is. And if it is that low, chances are that the spray pattern will be "less than desirable" for atomization.

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecs Ondonti, can you provide an example of this? "I would liek to point out that you need to exponentially increase fuel pressure ans you increase boost."

Try reading the thread again. We have covered it. M90daytona was the first to post on the issue.
I will add that increasing fuel pressure per PSI boost does not equate to a linear fuel delivery increase.

Even winks post admits these weaknesses and how they work together. The very way the device works limits its capacity. You cant view the abilities or weaknesses of the device separately as it functions as one unit.

Come to my house in a few weeks and I can show you the problems a RRFPR causes if you use it beyond its small capacity.

Its possible that my motor can make near 500crankhp with a RRFPR but The motor will hardly function in the lower RPMS therefore its not really something Im interested in doing.

a mid 12 second car is not fast enough to talk about how great the system is.
You can run 12's with 250hp and your car running like crap.

[ecs]

Well I wasn't pertaining to using the RRFPR with the bigger injector but using the computer to adjust how long the injector stays open was what I was getting at.

And a RRFPR and an adjustable FPR are totally different. The adjustable FPR for the most part will hold a consistent fuel pressure throughout idle-WOT. Some may have a vacuum line to increase fuel pressure on a max of 10 psi on top of the base when it detects low vacuum. The RRFPR will hold stock base fuel pressure at idle, and when it detects boost from it's signal line will start increasing fuel pressure on a certain ratio. IE: The vortec unit will increase fuel pressure on a ratio of 6:1 (there are a few ratios that it increases by, this is just one of them) therefore for every 1 psi of boost it detects, it will increase base pressure over stock by 6. So at 1psi of boost, if the engine's stock base fuel pressure is 46 then it is now 52. At 2 psi then it is 52. 3 psi is 58 and so on and so on.

If i'm wrong please point it out. But from everywhere I have read, it's been the same story.

[m90daytona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti Try reading the thread again. We have covered it. M90daytona was the first to post on the issue. I will add that increasing fuel pressure per PSI boost does not equate to a linear fuel delivery increase. Even winks post admits these weaknesses and how they work together. The very way the device works limits its capacity. You cant view the abilities or weaknesses of the device separately as it functions as one unit. Come to my house in a few weeks and I can show you the problems a RRFPR causes if you use it beyond its small capacity. Its possible that my motor can make near 500crankhp with a RRFPR but The motor will hardly function in the lower RPMS therefore its not really something Im interested in doing. a mid 12 second car is not fast enough to talk about how great the system is. You can run 12's with 250hp and your car running like crap.

i dont understand why the rrfpr wont work for you? are you saying it doesnt "flow" good? why wont the car function in the lower rpm's? are you blaming the rrfpr for a problem that could actually be caused by the factory ecu? what makes you think its the rrfpr giving you problems?

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecs Well I wasn't pertaining to using the RRFPR with the bigger injector but using the computer to adjust how long the injector stays open was what I was getting at. And a RRFPR and an adjustable FPR are totally different. The adjustable FPR for the most part will hold a consistent fuel pressure throughout idle-WOT. Some may have a vacuum line to increase fuel pressure on a max of 10 psi on top of the base when it detects low vacuum. The RRFPR will hold stock base fuel pressure at idle, and when it detects boost from it's signal line will start increasing fuel pressure on a certain ratio. IE: The vortec unit will increase fuel pressure on a ratio of 6:1 (there are a few ratios that it increases by, this is just one of them) therefore for every 1 psi of boost it detects, it will increase base pressure over stock by 6. So at 1psi of boost, if the engine's stock base fuel pressure is 46 then it is now 52. At 2 psi then it is 52. 3 psi is 58 and so on and so on. If i'm wrong please point it out. But from everywhere I have read, it's been the same story.

#1 you dont seem to know how a base fuel pressure regulator works (regardless of being adjustable). Any regulator that is referenced to the intake manifold like ours does works the same way.

#2 why are you explaining something like this? Not to mention since you dont understand the base fuel pressure regulator what you posted is incorrect.

at 15psi bost your base regulator is adding 15psi fuel pressure without adding in your RRFPR.

Im not going to explain how a base regulator works because Im tired of you inferring that Im a bench racer. manifold referenced regulators do not hold a constant fuel pressure.

Apparently Everywhere you have read they are idiots or you cant read.

Also, talking about non referenced base pressure regulators that nobody here uses (and cant use) doesnt help.

[ecs]

Ok, it seems that i'm not getting through to you.

#1 I'm not talking about AFPR's or stock FPR's. I'm talking about RRFPR's that go IN LINE AFTER (and WITH) your base FPR. You don't remove your base FPR when you add a RRFPR (unless you have the RRPFR with the base FPR built in such as BEGI's multi role regulators). The RRFPR doesn't work the same way as "any other FPR".

#2 Since I "don't understand" the base FPR instead of criticizing me, why not provide some feedback?

And yes, I did have a brain fart yesterday and wrote the wrong thing. The base regulator doesn't have a maximum set on increasing fuel pressure but it is a 1:1 ratio on top of the base.

And no need to bring the other thread's animosity into this one. If you feel that you need to take out some anger on someone because of bad things that's happened then just PM me the anger and negativity but keep this thread on topic.

[ecs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m90daytona i dont understand why the rrfpr wont work for you? are you saying it doesnt "flow" good? why wont the car function in the lower rpm's? are you blaming the rrfpr for a problem that could actually be caused by the factory ecu? what makes you think its the rrfpr giving you problems?

I don't understand it either. The RRFPR should be pretty much inactive until he hits 0 vac and then either that may be the problem, or he's just running so much boost that a RRFPR is inadequate since he said he's running 500hp. Inadequate being the fact that once you get past 10 psi of boost, your fuel pressure starts to get too high.

[m90daytona]

whether the rrfpr raises the fuel pressure exponentially or linearly shouldnt matter THAT much. its the job of the ecu to supply the correct amount of fuel to the cylinders.

[m90daytona]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecs I don't understand it either. The RRFPR should be pretty much inactive until he hits 0 vac and then either that may be the problem, or he's just running so much boost that a RRFPR is inadequate since he said he's running 500hp. Inadequate being the fact that once you get past 10 psi of boost, your fuel pressure starts to get too high.

not if you run a smaller disc. they make 1:1 discs, 2:1 disks and 3:1 disks. i am using a 4:1 right now. and i may go smaller still.