P-body 24v updates

[Shadow24V]

worked some more tonight, got everything disconnected, exhaust, PS pump, CLT lines, etc. motor and trans are hanging from the trans mount and pass side motor mount. i figured id wait til tomorrow to pull em as im a bit tired. Not sure whether i want to pull them as a unit or separate them. im beginning to think a unit would be easier, and less hassle (4 bolts vs 4 + bell housing and other measures) hopefully ill know by tomorrow night what happened.

Also, i drained the oil pan and didnt have any shavings or pieces in it, but pulling the pan tomorrow will tell some more...

[Shadow24V]

got a lot done last night. got the motor/trans pulled out as one unit, pulled em apart, put the motor on the engine stand and tore the whole bottom end apart. i cant tell if i spun a bearing of any kind as they all seemed to be in the right place.... every bearing, rod or main, showed signs of wear though, the wear is that polished look instead of a dull look. some were worse than others. i can tell if i spun the #1 main bearing or if i also spun the #1 and #6 rod bearings. As far as i can tell, aside from the polish on the bearings, nothing else is wrong with the motor. oil pump looks ok (had good oil pressure when i started the motor again and heard the noise) there were no pieces to be found anywhere in the motor. the crank doesnt show any signs of scratches, dents or dings, although i may take it to my cousin and have him polish all the journals with emery cloth. The clutch seemed ok, the PP side was evenly worn, but the flywheel side didnt look evenly worn (see pic below) and the PP had some very slight groves beginning to appear in it.

my plan for the moment then is: plastigauge the current bearings to see if anything is amiss, and replace the main and rod bearings. the oil pump will probably not be replaced. Im going to check the cam journals and cams to make sure the oil starvation didnt affect those poorly either. other than that, i dont think there is much else for me to do but replace the bearings and give it a try. I dont think ARP main and rod bolts are needed just yet...

On another note, im going to have a blockoff plate made for the distributor and get that made up to remove that off the motor. Im also going to see about making a mounting for the supercharger while the motor is out of the car, and possibly see about a UIM creation like Brent's for when i get to S/C the car.

i also didnt realize cranks were so feraking HEAVY! and that bottom ends have LOTS of sharp edges...


Pics








This is a new version of the culprit that died on me at the track, brass and plastic...gotta see about finding a 1/8" BSPT thread plug for it instead of another sensor.










Uneven wear on flywheel side of clutch

[lookin]

What a busy Bee you have been!

Now all you need is some pics.

[Shadow24V]

of what? i think i posted 21 in the above post...

[lookin]

I know. Just kiddin around.

[Reaper1]

I'd have the crank checked to make sure all the surfaces are still round. The rods also. Cheap insurance to make sure new bearings will be all you do actually need. That's a forged crank in that thing from the looks of it. Definatly heavier than cast, but also stronger.

The clutch wear doesn't look all that abnormal from what I've seen from other people.

I do have a question about how the engine connects to the transmission. Are there any bolts that go in to the lower part of the bellhousing? If there aren't that seems kind of scary to me. I'd defnatly look in to trying to do something there if the don't connect to anything! It is possible for the engine to be slightly separated frfom the bellhousing without bolt being on the lower part. I've seen it happen on my car.

Anyways..good luck! I hope there wasn't much more damage..

[SpeedyEd]

Hey Shadow,
Did'ja check the idler pulley bearing? You have an idler on the timing belt too.
SpeedyEd

[Ondonti]

None of your mains spun.


You can tell if a bearing spun because the tab on the bearing gets flattened out.
They actually look pretty good.
No need for ARP hardware ever unless you are upgrading rods.

Maybe you want to open up the oil pump just to be safe. Once you do that you dont have to worry anymore about expensive bottom end damage
Hopefully you find the rattle. You dont want to be like me and just put it back together not sure whats happening :P

[Shadow24V]

i opened the oil pump and all seemed well, nothing seemed wrong. im going to take a feeler gauge to it with the manual tomorrow or tuesday.

Didnt know that about the mains w/ the tabs. if its not the mains or oil pump, what could it be? it sure didnt sound like a bad belt pully...Which idler were you referring to anyway ed? ill take another look at the rod bearings then, see if any of the tabs are flattened.

how do you check a crank for roundness anyway? im sure if anyone has the tools for that, my cousin does

In regards to the trans, there are the 4 bolts that go into the block from the trans side, and there are two that go into the trans from the motor side. Thats it for holding the trans to the block. it doesnt move at all when its bolted like that. ive put it through some hell and ti hasnt caused me any problems

[SpeedyEd]

Hey shadow,
The sound your engine was making sounded like an idler pulley (ball bearing), not rod or main.
There appears to be idlers on the timing belt,the water pump & alt. Try rotating each one while applying pressure (like the belt does). If you feel any roughness in the bearing, you found the culprit. The roughness comes & goes as you turn the pulley(it starts on one ball & gets worse the longer it runs)
Checking the crank journals is done by measuring the diameter twice,90 degs. apart, using a micrometer. Any difference would be the out of round. Sorry I can't draw a diagram, but it's pretty simple.
Hope this helps
SpeedyEd

[Shadow24V]

thanks ed, i know what you mean with checking the journals. as for the idlers, both the tensioner idler and the regular idler seemed smooth to me, but ill double check. ill also double check the water pump. i did put a new one on when i originally installed the motor so *shrug* i just dont want to go through all this and still have the noise when im done

[SpeedyEd]

Shadow,
I see two idlers in the 4th & 5th pictures & another one in the crank in block picture for the timing belt. You have to apply pressure as you turn them to feel the roughness. Ditto the water pump.
SpeedyEd

[Shadow24V]

the two on the outside are ok, the one to the PS pump rides nice and the other one i bought new when i did the swap. as for the twe on the timing belt, those im not sure about. ill give those a check

EDIT: i re-listened to the video, and now that i know a bit more, it sounds like an intermittent rod bearing *shrug*

[jory]

Nice work man. The bottom end looks good but you're right about replacing the bearings, I would replace them all too. Have the crank checked for roundness and polished. If the crank is good then the rods are good too. If it was a rod bearing knocking around then the crank is going to show some wear and point you to the culprit. I would replace the oil pump and install a Fidanza flywheel while it's apart too, even if it takes an extra few weeks of saving money. My motor build ended up taking a year start to finish, and it was definitely worth it. Smoking Civic Si's and other cars in my old 4-door Dodge is a great feeling.

[Ondonti]

Yeah, just to be safe, check the rod and main journals. I dont have anything but a 1" micrometer and then a fancy bore gauge myself so I cant check anything on the crank. :P