P-body 24v updates

[Shadow24V]

the 3g guys are saying they get similar pressures at the same throttle/rpm areas. ill try and get some pics of the oil pump tomorrow.

i checked the rods/wrist pins tonight and they all were fine. no slop or differences etc. i DID put together the crank, rods and mains today, with some permatex assembly lube. i woulda gotten more done but i didnt have any RTV, so im at a holdup until i get some tomorrow. I also replaced the rear main seal in the housing.

hopefully soon she'll live again! :-D

[SpeedyEd]

Hey Shadow,
What does your shop manual say about oil pressure?
SpeedyEd

[Shadow24V]

Ed, ill see what i can find out, i forgot to look in the book today again lol

Between last night and tonight, i finished reassembling the vast majority of the motor. Put the rear main seal housing back on with RTV and a new seal (didn't realize the gasket kit came with a rear seal housing gasket, but the motor came from the factory with only RTV so that's what i did) , new front seal on the oil pump. (which btw, doesnt have any holes in the relief valve or retaining bolt) cleaned that up and put the valve back in. Oil pump went on with new RTV. Oil pan parts went on next with RTV. then it was timing belt time, this included the two idler pulleys i neglected to replace last time i was in the motor. i shouldnt have any problems with the timing belt or associated pullys etc now. Made sure that the timing was right on (i marked the timing belt when i took it off, and it went on right and lined up fine). did the 720* rotation to ensure there was no contact anywhere etc. and put the remaining odds and ends on the front covers back on.

i did some mock-up for my S/C too, i still have to figure out a few things though.
Heres how id like the S/C to sit on the motor





I do have to either move or add a pulley to get the belt from the alternator (upper right of motor) to the S/C by going UNDER the motor mount. havent figured out how to do this yet.


This is the height comparison between the 24v intake manifold and the S/C body. i have to find some way to find out how much clearance i have to play with and make an outlet manifold to fit.


And lastly, since i dont need the distributor, i am having a blockoff plate made up for the dizzy hole (which is directly driven off the rear cam). However, in re-installing the timing belt, i noticed that without the dizzy, the rear cam has about 1/8-1/4" play. i couldn't seem to move it once the belt was on, but it makes me wonder if this play will bite me somehow. Any opinions?

[Reaper1]

Are you 100% sure those seal reainters used RTV and not anerobic sealer(Loctite 518)? If you are talking about sealing them to the block I'm fairly certain that *should* be anerobic...at least it is on the 2.2/2.5 engines. I honeslty haven't taken a 3.0 down that far yet(never had to!). PLEASE double check that before going much farther! I'd hate to see you come up with a ton of leaks due to RTV failing!

As for the cam...maybe use a sort of cam button on your block off plate to keep the cam from moving? It *should* have a thrust bearing built in to the cam design, but it is possible they only desinged it to take load in one direction becuase the dizzy had the capability of taking the load in the other direction....just a thought...

[Ondonti]

6g72's use gaskets on the oil pump to block attachment. A couple bucks from the dealer should be it.

Do you mean end to end play? Thats pretty normal in 12v heads.

[lookin]

Got fingers crossed here for you Shadow. Hope it all works out.

[Shadow24V]

Reaper - ill take another look in the book. Whats the main difference between RTV and that anerobic stuff you mentiened?

Ondonti - my pump came off without a gasket, just RTV. the gasket kit did NOT have an oil pump gasket *shrug*

[Shadow24V]

ok, looked at the book - oil pan and rear main case use RTV. the oil pump asks for Anaerobic sealer.... i may pull it off to lube the relief valve anyways.

Reaper - the manual calls for a minimum of 4 psi at idle and 43 -100psi at 3500rpm

now, off to the salt mines for the day....yay work (NOT! lol)

so with the tension on the Timing belt, do you think that end play would cause any problems? and that spacer, what do you think i should do? machine the dizzy flat and use it as a spacer?

[Ondonti]

lol @ the oil pressure tolerances.

Have you actually had the heads apart before? If they look something like the 12vheads, it really doesnt matter. They dont really have a thrust bearing, and they are able to move back and forth slightly (both front and rear cam). One of the cam journals looks like it has thrust bearings but there is so much play they dont touch on either side. Thats why you can move the came back and forth 1/8' to 1/4"

Is your other cam movable? The 12v cams are basically the same except for the gear. I guess the 24v sohc is different because the distributor is at the other end of the head.

[Reaper1]

RTV stands for "room temperature vulcanizing", so it is a type of rubber compund...basically a liquid "rubber" gasket. It is meant for areas where there can be "larger" gaps betwen parts, and the tolerances aren't very good(ie oil pans and valve covers usually).

Anerobic sealer is also known as anerobic gasket maker. It is meant for machined surfaces where the tolerances are pretty tight and not a lot of air can get in between. It has the ability to "fill in" small dings and gouges when it dries, and becuase the fitment is so tight between the two parts, is pretty impervious to oil, fuel, coolant, ect. Think of it as kind of a glue for machined metal parts that are bolted together. Anerobic means that it only cures in the absense of oxygen. You can leave the cap off that stuff for WEEKS and it will be as good as it was when you opened it. I don't suggest it, but it WILL work just fine! Ususally this stuff is used when putting seal plates on blacks, oil pumps on blocks, assembling the two halves of 2-stroke marine engine blocks, cam caps on heads, it can be used on the edges of pressed in bearings and seals, and it can also work well as a type of thread locker...espcially for AN and NPT fittings where they are under high pressure and you don't want them to leak, but you also can't over torque them. If used for the last application, just don't use too much! You don't want it in the lines!

I hope you find this information usefull!

[lookin]

Thank you Reaper. That is very useful.

Some of us, don't already know absolutely everything, unlike some here.

[Shadow24V]

well, seeing as how oil wont be going into my motor for a few days, do you think my RTV will work fine? i dont really want to tear the timing belt and oil pan(s) off again...

as for the cams, the front one doesn't have any play, only the rear one does when the dizzy is removed. I may disassemble the dizzy and see if i cant use it as a blank plug, and remove the drive gear off of it as well. ill take a look at it when i get it back from my cousin this weekend

btw, thanks for the info reaper, learn something new every day

[lookin]

You could also modify the old dizzy, so it turns a little toy radar dish, or something.

Might be fun.

I would actually consider doing that, if it was my engine, bion.

[SpeedyEd]

Shadow,
Refer to your photo #552, the small hole in the gasket surface of the pump housing, just below the brass bolt. This is a vent for the back side of the relief valve. Don't plug it with silicone,(maby thats why there's a gasket). When the valve opens any restriction to that vent will raise OP. There is a matching hole in the block that appears to vent to the crankcase.
There isn't a hole in the valve, there are two holes in the relief valve housing that dump the excess oil back to the inlet. If they are restricted, that could raise pressure at higher RPM.
SpeedyEd

[Shadow24V]

Ed, that is under the backing cover that is NOT sealed wth RTV, there is no gasket/sealant between the backing cover and the oil pump, and there isnt a hole in the case there so i believe it vents to the interior of the oil pump, not 100% sure though since its already put on the motor and i cant look at it