P-body 24v updates

[Shadow24V]

Well, i got the new trans installed and everything put back together, but....got stopped in my tracks by a wiring gremlin i have yet to figure out. the MS keeps randomly loosing the PIP signal from the EDIS so i didn't even attempt the 65 mile trip back to my apartment. (my g/f drove me back :) ) the new trans seems OK, i think it just needs to be driven a little. I put 3 qts castrol GTX 5w30 in it (did the tilt overfill on the trans) so it should have enough fluid. The new trans also got new axle seals as a precaution.

Ok, on to the good stuff - OBX CARNAGE!!!

Ill try and get some better pics of the bolts and any other parts as requested

all the worm gears showed impact wear dents on the teeth, most had chips or cracks in them and some were incredibly chewed up. I believe i can salvage the trans. Hot tank the case, rebuild and a little de-burring of the diff casing and i think it will be Good to Go.

Also most of the upper case threads were OK, about 3 were not that easy to thread into so they are probably damaged somehow. I looked down in them and all the threads looked somewhat worn. Not sure what SpeedyEd meant with the blind puckered holes...(thats WAY too open for bad comments lol). AFAICT, the bolts didn't stretch, they just got totally wore the F*ck out somehow. Also, all the MASSIVE worm gear damage was on the parts of the worm gears that connected in the middle and not so much on the parts that connected to the axle gears. Remember, the halves separated in the diff casing on me so...

mind you these bolts are grade 12.9...




Heres the transmission casing damage




Diff cover damage




All the filings on the magnet (which i cleaned off when i had the trans apart over the summer) and that piece you see will be explaned later :)



ok, on to the worm gears (sorry if they arn't that clear, i tried to get my camera to focus right but...) Heres the top set of gears, the first two you should see the bright wear/impact marks on the upper half



Heres one of the bad gears - look at the pieces missing from it


a lil fuzzy, but this has chips in it too


this one isn't so bad, but it still shows impact wear dents on the teeth



Heres the top axle gear, you can see the shiny impact wear dents on the teeth here too


overview of the top set of gears



Belleville washers (upgraded ones from TU no less)




Dowel pin, worn down a bit from impact or from being run with the case separated. the upper end is worn away at a slight angle (companion damage on case later)



lower gearset


this one is chipped up pretty good too



big wear dents on this one



can't see the crack in the tooth in the pic



you CAN see the cracked tooth in this one



ALL the gears side by side





Other axle gear, similar impact wear dents as all other gears




The biggest chipped tooth on any of the gears




Dowel pin dent in upper case



remember that piece on the magnet? it went here...




total protrusion of case bolt into upper case




testing thread depth in upper case




Difference in bolt length and thread depth. the ruler marks the depth of the upper case thread and the t-measure shows how far the case bolts reach into the threads.

[Ondonti]

So its sounding like the bolts just backed themselves out and the LSD pretty much killed itself by "functioning" when he case was coming apart?

Anyways, the one thing I know for sure is that this magnet was clean, and 100 miles later it looked like this. My OBX has always came out solid when I swapped it between transmissions.
Now I am a bit worried cause I didn't use locktite either. When I reshimmed the OBX to fix my clearance issues last summer I don't remember if I totally took apart the case so i probably didn't look at the magnet.

My fluid always comes out looking metallic. It always did with my Phantom grip diff too. Not sure if its also particles from the failing bearings in the trans.......My first trans death had that happen.

Edit: this is probably when I swapped my Diff from the crunchbox (bad 4th synchro). I have pictures on the same date (but earlier picture number) of Cruise ships in Seattle from my visit summer 2007 :P
This trans did not fail, and it had that much material in less then 100 miles.

My OBX only had like 200 miles on it total (100 with each transmission) so I dont know how much is just normal heavy early wear of the unit.

[Shadow24V]

yeah, if/when i get another OBX, loctite is going on those suckers for sure. In addition, im going to find longer bolts for more thread engagement. Chris at TU mentioned to me that (i think) his upgraded bolts are now longer for the same reason of thread engagement.

[Ondonti]

I massively edited that post cause it didnt make sense timewise.

100 miles and the magnet looked like that. The 200th mile of the OBX being used. I stopped using that trans cause it had a bad 4th gear synchro.

[Shadow24V]

well, I won't be able to warranty the OBX. I never got the "registration card" or info for ensuring the warranty got applied, (NO FAULT of Cris' at TU BTW), USPS shredded my box and mine may have been purchased BEFORE they did the cards, in addition to a slew of other issues.

An FYI to anyone with an OBX or going to get one, MAKE SURE you do the registration crap otherwise your SOL! Also, the "Dealer/wholesaler" are the ONLY people OBX will do warranties through, NOT the end purchaser!

Guess i need to start saving up again for an OBX and trans rebuild... this puts the S/C plans on hold again :(

Also, Kudos to Chris for all the help with this lately

[lookin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow24V Also, the "Dealer/wholesaler" are the ONLY people OBX will do warranties through, NOT the end purchaser!

Try asking, the dealer you bought it from, for some back up. At least try, Shadow. They just may surprise you and be helpful.

I have a feeling they will remember you, and if one employee says no, then take it uphill to someone with more authority. Just be polite is all. That works for me all the time.

[SpeedyEd]

Hey Shadow,
Blind holes are dead ended, & you need to check for debris in the bottom. That keeps the bolts from clamping the unit together. Puckered holes indicate the threads were pulling out. I couldn't tell if the bolts were stretched, but the thread damage probably occurred after the bolts loosened.
All the worm gear damage probably occurred after the bolts backed off & the cases spread.
Longer bolts & Loctite, check thread depth & stop driving like a maniac. Oh yeah, that's why we do this. I forgot.
SpeedyEd

[Shadow24V]

Lookin, I got it from TU about 2 years ago and my "paperwork" is not in line with OBX's return policy. i called them, got the runaround and all that. I don't want to cause a stink and screw something up for the community by pushing too hard.

Their legal fine print has me coming and going 5 ways so they don't have to warranty the LSD (modification, wrong (Not original) application, not registered within 30 days of purchase, etc)

*shrug* some days the bear eats you lol


Speedy ed - the holes are blind and don't look puckered. i think your right though, the damage looks like it was caused AFTER the case bolts loosened. At least when i get another, ill have some spare parts lol

[lookin]

I am really sorry this happened to you Shadow. As always you have a great attitude. I hope things pick up soon for you.

[Shadow24V]

thanks lookin :) Ill manage though. i just was hoping to go to the track when it opened, but im not inclined to trust a non-protected open diff behind the 24v. Just sets things back for progress and whatnot, esp. when your not making much at all.

I think the plan now is to rebuild the old trans and save for another OBX or quaife. Im not sure if the additional warranty and better company is worth an extra $450 for a quaife .... I think im going to end up with another OBX just due to cost. But prep will be a lot better. longer bolts, red loctite etc.

first step now is to figure out the wiring issue with "Lucy" to get her back on the road...

[SpeedyEd]

Hey Shadow,
What was that diff. originally for & what modifications did you do to make it fit the Shadow?
SpeedyEd

[Shadow24V]

i believe the "original application" is the neon 420A motored transmission. I did the belleville washers and case bolts upgrades as generally recommended.

[Reaper1]

Since it is a bolt-in for our application I wonder if we can prove through the use of MOPAR part numbers that the diff is DIRECTLY interchangable between the Neon and our applications? If so, then it IS for the correct appliction!

[Shadow24V]

thats an idea, if anything, maybe someone should contact OBX about having that diff classified for use in our transmissions (Im still stuck with no paperwork, modification and probably improper install :-p)

[Ondonti]

This is what law school is for :P
Working for free and costing companies boatloads in legal services :) (more then they screw people out of)

30 days? how can you register it if you dont even get the card? Then when its missing from the box and you try to get the card, etc etc time wasted "oops 30 days is up"
My friend had the same registration problem with his Screwcharger (fing expensive supercharger) and I told him to push them even though he didnt have the card filled out cause it seemed like it was just them putting up a loophole that they know a judge wouldnt accept. Got his supercharger fixed for free after I made him pester them.

Lots of companies (schools too) make up rules that are totally invalid but they just hope that people will give up and stop trying. Only those willing to jump all the hoops get help.