604-543 swap, how to fix neutral start switch?

[Tim_K]

I spent the last couple days of my 1 week paid vacation time doing the 604-543 swap in my '93 Shadow ES, along with replacing the 191,000 mile V6 with a 73,000 mile engine.

One issue that needs to be fixed is the neutral start switch. Since all those wires going to the 604 are now unplugged, the only way to start the car is to leave the key in the run position and go under the front of the car and jump the starter terminals with a 17mm wrench.

Needless to say, that's something I want to fix ASAP!

So what's the thing to do here? Find the neutral switch plug in the 604 wiring and jumper it? Or do something else?

What about the 604 transmission computer? Do I unplug it too, or leave it as is?

I did change the SBEC to a 1993 V6 5 speed unit. 4686625 is the number on the chip inside the rubbery sealer stuff. I took the housing apart to clean the cooling fins and looked for the number.

[Tim_K]

Here's another question. With the automatic shifter, there's a cable going from the shifter up to the ignition key, so you can only take the key out in Park or Neutral.

Now that cable end is sitting there loose, and I have to hold it in a certain spot to take the key out. Needless to say, that BS will get old fast.

Should I just lock the cable in place in the good spot, or take apart the steering column enough to disconnect it at the ignition switch and RTV it in place or something?

[jory]

Both are easy solutions. Here's what I did. I took the cover off the steering column, there you can see where the cable goes to the key lock thing. Just take off that mechanism (piece of metal held on with a torx screw) and yank that cable out. Then remove all the a604 wiring including the computer. It should look like this when it's out. The black connector is the one you want. That will be used for the neutral start switch and the reverse lights, and possibly in your case the speed sensor. Take a look at these 2 pictures, that's what mine looks like.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...5_333_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member...5_331_full.jpg

[Tim_K]

Okay, once I get the 604 computer out and find that black connector, what do I do with it? I have a 1989 Chrysler shop manual, maybe it has the wiring diagram for which wires in the black connector need to be jumpered?

When I was collecting parts for the 543 swap, one of the things I got was a piece of the 543 wiring. It came from the car that I got the pedals, shifter, and K frame from, a '94 Sundance which was a 2.2 / 523 car. The wiring has connectors for the starter, the speedometer gear / sensor, and the + battery terminal. It also plugs into the big gray connector right behind the battery, but there's a 2 pin plug with an orange and a black wire that my car doesn't have a matching plug for. And it didn't have a plug for the oil pressure sending unit down by the distributor, either.

[Tim_K]

The car is running and on the road now, more or less.

Several problems:

1. BIG oil leak on the back side of the engine. I haven't looked yet, but it BETTER be the valve cover and not the head gasket!

2. Neutral start switch still not fixed. I tried using a piece of wire to jumper the neutral start switch connector in every possible combination, and also tried it with a wire to jumper the PRNDL connector right beside it on the transmission at the same time, on the same corner of the case. Nothing worked.

3. Clutch cable must be stretched (it WAS a used one, after all), because even with a couple shims down at the transmission end of the cable, the clutch doesn't release until the pedal is nearly to the floor.

4. While driving it, I found out that now my turn signals don't work. What does that have to do with anything I was working on?

5. Speedometer doesn't work, but I half expected that. Not a big deal at the moment, considering the other problems I have.

So things could be a lot better.

Only good points were that it drove okay when I was on the road, and the key / shifter lockout thing was removed and is not a problem anymore.

Anyone got some good ideas for me?

[charger R/T]

N/S issue. If you found the 3 wire plug. The center wire is the N/S wire (has been that way since the 60's) It needs a ground. either ground it or run it to a clutch switch that will give it a ground with the clutch pushed in. The other 2 wires in that plug are the reverse light wires. Run those up to the switch on the top of the trans to get them working.
Tim

[lookin]

Re: Your speedometer.

Speed distance sensor not connected properly?

[Boogieman142]

here ya go

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim_K The car is running and on the road now, more or less. Several problems: 1. BIG oil leak on the back side of the engine. I haven't looked yet, but it BETTER be the valve cover and not the head gasket! 2. Neutral start switch still not fixed. I tried using a piece of wire to jumper the neutral start switch connector in every possible combination, and also tried it with a wire to jumper the PRNDL connector right beside it on the transmission at the same time, on the same corner of the case. Nothing worked. The center wire on the 3-wire plug that was on the front of the transmission, its brown/light blue, just run it to ground. If you have cruise and would like to keep it then you will need to put a switch in that circuit, your cruise will only work when the car is not in "neutral". i have a switch under the seat to open this circuit for cruise plus it doubles up as a anti-theft thing, only starts when closed. i did it this way so i do not knock out the thrust bearing upon starting. 3. Clutch cable must be stretched (it WAS a used one, after all), because even with a couple shims down at the transmission end of the cable, the clutch doesn't release until the pedal is nearly to the floor. Mine does the same thing, carry a spare with you. 4. While driving it, I found out that now my turn signals don't work. What does that have to do with anything I was working on? Absolutely nothing, that would be a different issue(well i can't really say that i don't know what you did) 5. Speedometer doesn't work, but I half expected that. Not a big deal at the moment, considering the other problems I have. Thats where i had the biggest issues, i got a pigtail from a car with a vss and extended the wires and wired it into the engine harness, i highly suggest a diagram for this. the vss needs a ground, 8v supply, and the signal output all of these i got from the harness behind the battery and since i had no"grey" plug on my car i had to wire it directly, the ground i got from pin 4 of the pcm, it is black with light blue tracer, the 8v supply i got from pin 7 of the pcm, it is orange, the vss signal i ran to pin 47 it is white with a orange tracer. that corresponds with the same colors of your vss harness pigtail So things could be a lot better. Only good points were that it drove okay when I was on the road, and the key / shifter lockout thing was removed and is not a problem anymore. Anyone got some good ideas for me?

BTW, do ur back up lights work, mine didn't even with the reverse switch hooked up to the wires, what i had to do was cut the wire for the rev. lights relay and run it to a ground b/c the ground for it was provided by the tcm and without the auto in it doesn't function. I left all of the auto stuff in the car also, the tcm and the harness are still there. What i did do tho was remove(not break off) the auto shifter, the trans linkage is still there too.

[mopar3.0]

did you re set the auto slack adjuster on the clutch pedal?

[Tim_K]

Charger R/T's answer for the neutral start switch fixed that problem. I ran a piece of wire from the center pin of the N/S switch socket to one of the bolts on the right strut tower, and the key works, it fired right up like it should.

And I think I know why the turn signals aren't working. In front of the console under the dash, is an electronic assembly with 2 plugs going into it. Those are currently unplugged, so that might fix that. I thought it was an airbag sensor or something.

The reverse lights weren't working even before the 543 swap, I'm not too concerned about them.

The clutch adjuster is a definite concern, something is wrong there. The white sliding part stays all the way below the black part that the clutch cable wraps around on. When I step on the clutch it takes up about 1/2" of slack, then it starts pulling the clutch release.

I made a piece of metal for a clutch stop, and right now the clutch pedal is about the same height as the brake pedal, which probably means it's too low. I think if I raise it some and readjust the slack amount the clutch will have more travel to disengage easier.

I also found the source of the oil leak. The front cam seal on the rear head wasn't in the proper position. Instead of being right on the edge of the head, on that 1/4" wide hole that's machined for it, it was actually IN further, as there's room for it to be pushed in too far. So only the edge of the seal was touching the edge of where it's supposed to be, and for whatever reason, the camshaft has a groove machined in it in right about that spot.

I think I had the seal in backwards also. The side with the coiled spring was in towards the cam, and the other side, with the diagonal tapered lines, was out towards the cam pulley.

I've never wanted to even try disassembling the front of a 3.0 in the car for a timing belt change or whatever, as it looks like it'd be a huge mess. But I was all hyper this afternoon upon finding these problems, so I backed it into the garage and took the front of the engine apart in about 1-1/2 hours. When I started, the intake was still hot enough that you couldn't keep your hand on it for more than a couple seconds.

So hopefully tomorrow will bring a lot of good news.

[charger R/T]

I'm glad that part of your problem is fixed.

I have been thinking about the speedo. What I do know is the OD trans used the output speed sensor for the speedo the trans computer would put a signal on the buss line that the body computer would read and drive the cluster. I wonder if leaving the trans computer in and wiring the speed sensor to the output speed sensor would work it. Those wires were for a plug higher up on the front of the trans then the NS plug is and the one that was closer to the wheel end of the trans. The one closer to the engine was for the input speed sensor.
Tim

[Tim_K]

Got the car fixed again and running fairly well today. I reassembled the engine, and whoever designed the mounting bolt system for the power steering pump needs to be kicked in the head! It was VERY hard to get those bolts back in there, as the attached washer kept spinning on me and I couldn't reach far enough to get at the hex of the bolt.

But the oil leak was fixed, I test ran the engine as soon as it was assembled enough to run. No alternator, timing belt covers, or anything not absolutely necessary.

The headlights and taillights work, but the turn signals and the 4 way flashers are not working. I checked the fuse and it was good, and I didn't unplug anything extra during the job. In front of the console under the dash, I put the 2 plugs back into that airbag module, and that didn't help either.

The speedometer doesn't work, but I expected that. Looking for a quick fix there.

My biggest concern now is the clutch cable and linkage. I readjusted the clutch pedal stop so the clutch pedal sits about 1-1/2" above the brake pedal.

BUT -- You have to press the clutch pedal to the level of the brake pedal before it even starts to pull on the cable, and the clutch pedal is within an inch of the floor before the clutch is released enough to shift smoothly.

I'm using a Turbos Unleashed T2 disc / T3 pressure plate clutch, it's brand new.

I also have the transmission end of the cable shimmed up about an inch with a nut and some washers to take up the slack.

The clutch cable came from the 149,000 mile V6 5 speed '93 Sundance in the junkyard, perhaps that's part of the problem? I also have a 144,000 mile cable from another junkyard '94 Sundance 4 cylinder 523 car that I could try.

On the left side strut tower I have that mounting plate that holds the end of the clutch cable housing, it and other parts came straight out of a '93 Sundance V6 5 speed in a local junkyard.

I'm also keeping all my automatic 604 parts, a return swap to the 604 isn't out of the question yet.


Having to shift a manual transmission is like having little kids in your house. You have to deal with them ALL the time, even if you don't really want to.

[Tim_K]

Here's one more thing that happened. When I first rolled the car out of the garage with the 543 installed, I heard a "ping" type of sound. I found out what that was. The left side CV axle coming out of the transmission is so close to the case that it knocked off the metal strap holding the big end of the CV boot on. Now I'm getting CV joint grease all over everything in there.

[lookin]

I hope it all works out well for you. Most people seem to really like the results of a swap, and I hope you do too.

[Tim_K]

I drove the car around quite a bit today. Overall, it's okay, but not as good as I'd hoped for. I changed the clutch cable to the other used one I had, and it didn't make much difference.

I tried starting the car twice today with the 543 in first gear, in parking lots. Fortunately no one was in front of me either time!

The engine likes to stall a lot when you take the load off of it when coasting down to a stop sign or red light. I'd say about 70% of the time it either stalled or would have stalled if I hadn't tapped the gas pedal to keep it running. That was very annoying. I'm using a 1993 manual transmission V6 SBEC, so why isn't it catching this?

The 543 itself is running very well. No strange noises at all and shifts smoothly. I have Castrol GTX 10w-30 motor oil in it.

The shifter seems a bit tight. The 144,000 mile used shifter cables bend enough to go through the floor about a foot in front of the shifter. I put the holes there because the floor had 2 dots stamped into it, which looked like the place where the cables might go through.

I never realized how much disc brakes drag, or at least how much MY disc brakes drag. I don't need to hold the brake on at a stop light unless it's on a significant hill. The 604 auto is always "pushing" because of the torque converter, so you have to use the brakes on it.

Right now I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance that I'll put the 604 back in.

Then the 543 stuff will be posted for sale here if that happens.