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Old 11-18-2007, 08:15 PM   #61
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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lmao nice one Matt

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Old 11-18-2007, 08:30 PM   #62
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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natasha ..... bad

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Old 11-18-2007, 08:33 PM   #63
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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Back to what this thread is really about, carzboyz problem with the newly installed 3lv6/A604 problem.

If you are getting black smoke (out the tailpipe) then the car is running rich. Happen to know what the O2 sensor reading is? A scantool is REAL helpful for this... You might try plugging and unplugging the O2 sensor a couple times.

Pulling the spark plugs might tell you if it is one or more cylinders that is rich... If they are all rich, I would start looking closer at the O2 sensor. If one is rich, then look at the injector itself (what year setup is this. if it it is individually fired setup, then it could be electrical.)

Just in case this is not known, the injectors have 12v to them all the time. The ECU switches the connection to ground... So in a short to ground between the ECU and the injector control would cause the injector to fire.
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Old 11-19-2007, 06:50 AM   #64
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22dodge View Post
people that say you can't run Dexron are ignorant to reality. there is nothing wrong with dexron in these transmissions. the FACT is that Mopar 7176 is the same as Dexron with a modifier to help with torque converter shutter.
You have any PROOF of this?

What makes atf3 and atf4 is very well documented if you google it around. it is NOT the same stuff. Before you start accusing people of being ignorant you should do a fact check on yourself.

Chrysler transmission fluids: 7176, ATF+3, ATF+4

Quote:
there are documented failures linked directly to running "other than 7176" fluids in these transmissions. If you were as good as you say you are, then you'd know that there are completely different friction modifiers in the 7176 than what is in Dexron.
Bingo. The fluids are VERY different chemically. Which brings me to Amisol ATF, that stuff is supposed to be a generic atf that can be used in virtually all applications but this is not so in practice. Even their reps on the mopar forums will tell you that some people have trouble using it in their newer transmissions due to the fluid's deviations from atf4. The shudder, bump shift, bump stop and slip problems it can cause are rare- but exist just the same. Their oil on the other hand, is another story and is well worth the money. Still, the drivability problems Amisol can on occasion cause in an A604 is not going to cause wear problems while Dexron (or dexron + additives) will. There are numerous reasons behind why dexron is bad besides the stuff drivers notice like TC shudder or slippage.

The friction properties, as well as the breakdown points of the fluid are all uber bad things for such an already weak trans. The fast ware from the frictional differences will decrease the life of the trans, not to mention cause clogged solenoids (which then burn up) as well as other problems.

Quote:
I could have said an A604 aka 41Te4, but although basically true, that would not be 100% accurate. The later [the second one] while basically the same, has a few updated hard parts, ... etc.
They are the same trans. There is no difference between the A604 and 41TE. All Chrysler did is change the name after the general public started to get wind of how troublesome the A604 can be. A rebuilt a604 is no different from a off the shelf stock 41TE.

Now a 42LE (A606) on the other hand... that is similar but different.

Quote:
Pulling the spark plugs might tell you if it is one or more cylinders that is rich... If they are all rich, I would start looking closer at the O2 sensor. If one is rich, then look at the injector itself (what year setup is this. if it it is individually fired setup, then it could be electrical.)

Just in case this is not known, the injectors have 12v to them all the time. The ECU switches the connection to ground... So in a short to ground between the ECU and the injector control would cause the injector to fire.
I doubt an O2 alone would let it run rich enough to blow black smoke out the tailpipe... if its off our dead the ECM should be going off of its programed tables which, althougher richer- aren't rich to the point of causing problems like this.

Could also be a leaky injector if its bad enough. A short to ground would also make sense. The fuel regulator could also be off I suppose.

What kind of mpg are you getting?

Although a different car, I lost about 25mpg on my 3.3 Dynasty some time back when I had a half dozen things go wrong at once componding the situation. Bad 02, thrown diff pin, limp mode, no exhaust system (at _all_ ), bad coolant temp sensor all at once set myself up for problems.

A bad O2 will not always throw a code especially on preOBD2 cars. It took two years for my bad o2 to finally throw a code and there was no doubt about it being kaput before that.
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:08 AM   #65
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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could I put a 2.5 tbi 4 wire o2 sensor in a 3.0l ?
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:40 AM   #66
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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Yes. If it is a 4-wire 02 and has the same plug end, you can use it.

And in response to something you said earlier, the 2.5 TBI fuel pump WILL NOT be sufficient for the V6. You'll need one from a V6 or turbo car. Some folks were a little preoccupied with trying to be right and missed what you said.
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Old 11-19-2007, 11:53 AM   #67
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyDodgeImp View Post

Which brings me to Amisol ATF, that stuff is supposed to be a generic atf that can be used in virtually all applications but this is not so in practice. Even their reps on the mopar forums will tell you that some people have trouble using it in their newer transmissions due to the fluid's deviations from atf4.
I sure like your tone better.

I am sure you are right that "some people have trouble" with Amsoil in their A604. Why that is though is open to question. There are many variables. Honestly this is not about "being right" as far as I am concerned. I am well aware that I know less than most of you here. I just hate to see people miss out on a superior product. Now just in case. I don't sell Amsoil products and never have. I use their ATF with great results though.

Here is what ALLPAR says about this issue.
Quote:
ALLPAR- 'Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge Car/Minivan Four-Speed Automatic Transmission Issues' <-- link

Several companies now sell "universal" fluids, often using a synthetic base, which they say will work with just about all vehicles. If they note that they are compatible with ATF+3 and ATF+4 - and most do - they may work well, especially for those unsure of which fluid to use. As far as we know, Chrysler doesn't endorse any particular non-Mopar fluid.
All I can speak from here is personal experience. I have logged many thousands of miles, of severe service over the last 3 years, using Amsoil ATF. Maybe I have had no problems because I only began using after a full rebuild, and for the first six months after the rebuild I ran ATF+3, before a filter change and complete flush with Amsoil. Although my minivan has only a mere 23 WHP above stock, I beat the daylights out of it, and I have had absolutely no problems at all.

I just got off the phone with the man who did the super rebuild on my A604. He said you are 100% correct, and my statement below only applies to mine when he was through with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stupid me, just last night. OOPS!

I could have said an A604 aka 41Te4, but although basically true, that would not be 100% accurate. The later [the second one] while basically the same, has a few updated hard parts, ... etc.
Well that was stupid of me. Not the first time either, and sadly it probably wont be the last time I say stupid stuff. I am working on it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShelbyDodgeImp View Post
They are the same trans. There is no difference between the A604 and 41TE. All Chrysler did is change the name after the general public started to get wind of how troublesome the A604 can be. A rebuilt a604 is no different from a off the shelf stock 41TE.

Now a 42LE (A606) on the other hand... that is similar but different.
Thanks for straightening me out on that ShelbyDodgeImp.
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Old 11-20-2007, 07:43 AM   #68
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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ok but why I am able to crank the engine at 5500 rpm without esitation ? If the pump is to small the engine will start to run lean and die or it will start to cut out ? and it wasn't able to run with black smoke
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Old 11-20-2007, 07:52 AM   #69
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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How many cylinders are running rich?
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Old 11-20-2007, 02:40 PM   #70
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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Check your fuel pressure and your plugs. Try to get a reading on what the fuel is doing. I don't know what the pressure rating is on the V6, but the TBI pump normally only runs at 14PSI. I highly doubt the TBI unit can keep up with a MPI V6. The TBI pump I had in my Daytona ES kept up with the newly installed turbo engine for a few short runs up and down the driveway but then it burned itself out. I think the best I ever got with it was 40 PSI.

Can you get the pump out of the engine donor car? Was there anything wrong with the donor car before you pulled the engine out?
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Old 11-20-2007, 03:53 PM   #71
Re: A 604 tranny problem !!  
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Yes the donor does'nt have a fuel tank I tested the engine with a home made tank with an old tbi fuel pump
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