65mm ford tb on stock plenum

[mopar3.0]

any one done it?

[mightymulhern]

No but I did a 70mm in 2003.

Ed Kelly is currently experimenting with it.

Here is my write up from way back when. A number of things could have been done better, but it will give you an idea how it can be made to work.


70mm Throttle Body Project

[lookin]

Mike

I read your injector wrote up. Very interesting. I think those 21lb injectors, may have worked out for you, if you had turned down your fuel pressure a bit.

Your webpage is very interesting.

[c2xejk]

it is worth noting that my dyne pulls were all done with stock 19lbs. injectors. I only went to larger injectors so I could turn down my base fuel pressure for my dual-pressure fuel system.

Stock injectors are good for a lot of power... The computer adjusts....

[mightymulhern]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookin Mike I read your injector wrote up. Very interesting. I think those 21lb injectors, may have worked out for you, if you had turned down your fuel pressure a bit. Your webpage is very interesting.

Hey Thanks! Nothing on the page has been updated in a REALLY long time though so anything written could be very out of date. At some point I should revamp it, but I haven't had the motivation.

As for the injectors, they were a foolish "upgrade". As Ed and I discovered on Daytonastein, the stock 92 computer is a lot more adaptive than anyone has given it credit for. If you stick in 21# injectors, they will quickly behave like 19# injectors. ...or you can turn the fuel pressure down yourself and they will work like 19# injectors. Oh well...

I don't want to hijack this guy's thread and go off topic with a long discussion of injectors and the ECUs so let me bring it back. The bottom line is that you don't need to upgrade your injectors up upgrade your throttle body (regardless of size). ...or for that matter to support any set of bolt ons that don't involve boost or nitrous.

[lookin]

Thanks for the good info Mike and Ed. Ed is quite obviously, rigorously dedicated to getting to the facts about the 3.0, and that is a very good thing.

I suppose the OE injectors may be able to support up to 3 lbs of boost with a BEGI RRG/FMU?

As you said Mike, we should snip this hijack in the bud though. I just had to ask anyway.

[c2xejk]

At a minimum you would need to modify the bolt pattern, the 60mm Jeep TB just barely fits if you elongate the bolt holes in the TB. Then you would need to epoxy the neck of the plenum so you don't port through as you open it up enough to match the TB.

You risk losing some low-RPM power as you gain high RPM power. At some point I need to dyno Mike's 70mm, I think it makes a slight gain at high-rpm (w/ported heads), but there seem to have been some lose of lower RPM power, but that may have been because I forgot to reverse the TPS wires (from how I have it setup on for my Jeep TB.)

There is a write-up on our site about how to do modify the 60mm Jeep TB to work on the 3L... (I will note that a pre-'96 TB is easier to modify, but the '96-up will work if you purchase the older style TPS.)


On the stock injectors and boost w/an FMU. The problem is, the FMU will likely not be requesting enough FP at 3psi of boost. A better solution might be to limit boost unless you are at WOT, then have a dual pressure fuel system that bumps the base pressure at ~1psi boost...

Or use auxillary injector(s). One cold start injector should be sufficient for 3psi if you pick the right one (something that can handle ~30whp...)

[mopar3.0]

so my stock injectors will have no issuse with 10.1 and big cams?
the tps is no as it will be running mega squirt
i have 60 mm ford too, 58 mm dodge tb on the car too

[mopar3.0]

so my stock injectors will have no issuse with 10.1 and big cams?
the tps is no as it will be running mega squirt
i have 60 mm ford too, 58 mm dodge tb on the carnow ,.maby the 60 will do the trick

[Shadow24V]

my 24v is running a 60mm TB, and if i gank the 6g74's upper plenum, i get a 65mm TB

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mopar3.0 so my stock injectors will have no issuse with 10.1 and big cams? the tps is no as it will be running mega squirt i have 60 mm ford too, 58 mm dodge tb on the car too

The only fuel problem we have is the volumetric tables in the stock computer above 5000 rpms. Put as big of fuel injectors as you want in and it wont matter.

My turbo car seems to lean out REALLY badly over 5500 rpms (well not so bad now because I increase the rate of increase some) but it still goes bad above 5800. My current setup just doesnt match the stock tables at all.

MS will take care of all those problems.

[c2xejk]

The volumetric efficiency table issue is why I went to a dual fuel pressure system... You open up the intake system and the engine can breathe better, but things start getting lean on the top end...

[mopar3.0]

i was also thinking tonight, seeing the only real rason to make a new plenum is for volume i have th gear for welding alumnium and im thinking there is some space between the upper and lower intake manifold to add a box to bottom of the upper plenum to increase the volume, i should measure before i dream........