3" exhaust....almost.

[irocelectric93]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookin If you want to totally eliminate drone then do the following. Get a few cans of expandable foam at Home Depot. Get the kind that wont over expand and warp window frames. Then squirt it between interior panels and the body and under the back seat, and then squirt some between the back seat and the trunk etc. Your car will be much quieter after that. You may add maybe as much as 30 ounces of weight to your car is all. The stuff is nearly weightless. No more drone. It worked like a charm on my van.

I think i might actually do that Thanks for the advice that is if it's too crazy loud and droned.

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookin Who cares if their race car is quiet though? Are you being a smart ass Brent?

Well there is loud exhaust, and then there is drone. Drone sucks and its not really the sound of the exhaust.

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookin Dusty do you know where the air tube vent is in relation to the honeycomb? Is it before or after it?

Its between the front and rear honeycomb.

[lookin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by irocelectric93 I think i might actually do that Thanks for the advice that is if it's too crazy loud and droned.

You are very welcome. I am really glad I used it on my van. It is as quiet as a luxury car in there now, and I had no idea how good my sound system really is until after I did it. The foam also insulates for temperature of course, and so your car will stay warmer in winter and cooler in summer if you have AC.

Here are a few usage tips.

Be sure to get the kind that wont bow window and door frames.

A word of caution. Wear gloves. It is very sticky before it cures. It turns into a tough plasticoat if you try to wipe it off your hands, and in fact it has to wear off. I learned that one the hard way. Not even paint thinner took it off while it was still wet.

It will peel off of clothing if it is not rubbed in. Just allow it to expand and cure. Don't try to wipe any up, from surfaces you don't want it to be on, before it cures. Just let it expand and cure. Then later you can poke it back under interior panels. It pulls right off, of carpet and other surfaces, if you don't rub it in. Did I mention you should NEVER rub it in or blot it?

It is also paintable after it dries.

It's Great Stuff. Enjoy.

[lookin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti Its between the front and rear honeycomb.

OK. Thanks Brent.

I agree that exhaust drone is both different and totally annoying. I didn't think of that.

[Ondonti]

I never did a good job of sealing the car up where I cut out the rusted spare tire well and welded in a piece of sheet metal
There are 8" holes on each corner of the rear of the car that are open to air lol..........and new rust to deal with on the welds since I didnt really take care of it like I should have. Always lots of work
Car leaks water like crazy.

[lookin]

Holy cow Brent. Hope you fix that soon. Considering the speeds that rocket of yours moves at and all. It could prove to be more than just a little breezy.

[440trk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookin I thought the air vent is there, on cats of that type, to help burn unburnt fuel vapor. Other than that, it is still exotic metals converting gasses by catalytic reaction. Or is the metal used and the honeycomb structure radically different on those cats? Have I got this all wrong?

You are correct in the purpose of the converter...but it's not what it does, its HOW it's doing its job that is being effected by the air injection. The chemical reactions that take place in the converter rely on several factors (temp being one of them). When you start messing with those factors, the converter can effectively stop working.

I don't recall the exact location this info came from, but here is the general idea behind the air injection:

Air Injection defines a system that introduces fresh air to the exhaust stream. This has been used in many ways, but the primary reason is to help raise the exhaust temperatures, promoting continued combustion of the exhaust gases as they leave the system. Heat was a primary function in later cars using catalysts, as the catalyst needs to reach operating temperature before it an do its job (see Catalyst), and the fresh shot of oxygen also helps the chemical reaction inside the catalyst



As you can see, the original intention of the air tube injection relies on the injected air for the cat to function as designed. Some of the newer style converters (sans air tube) have the ability to store air for a short period of time, thereby negating the need for the air tube. Best bet would be to contact the manufacturer.

Possibly, the converter won't do much of anything except "look" like it's functioning under the car. However, if a visual emissions inspection is done, he may fail if the tester wants to get picky (as that car shouldn't have an air injection cat on it...some emissions guys are real sticklers). If they see a capped air tube, it's going to draw attention.

I'm not saying he's going to have problems...just that he would have been better off getting a converter that didn't have the air injection provision. He "could" possibly have build up issues within the cat over time, if it doesn't heat up enough to function properly.

[Ondonti]

But the catalytic converter is EXACTLY the same as the non air tube version from the same manufacturer.

[lookin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 440trk You are correct in the purpose of the converter...but it's not what it does, its HOW it's doing its job that is being effected by the air injection. The chemical reactions that take place in the converter rely on several factors (temp being one of them). When you start messing with those factors, the converter can effectively stop working. I don't recall the exact location this info came from, but here is the general idea behind the air injection: Air Injection defines a system that introduces fresh air to the exhaust stream. This has been used in many ways, but the primary reason is to help raise the exhaust temperatures, promoting continued combustion of the exhaust gases as they leave the system. Heat was a primary function in later cars using catalysts, as the catalyst needs to reach operating temperature before it an do its job (see Catalyst), and the fresh shot of oxygen also helps the chemical reaction inside the catalyst

OK, as I supposed, air is introduced to support the combustion of unburnt fuel, but the reason that is done, is to ensure high enough EGT to facilitate a good catalytic reaction.

Thanks for clarifying that.

[440trk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti But the catalytic converter is EXACTLY the same as the non air tube version from the same manufacturer.

I haven't had 'em apart to compare....have you?

I doubt they are EXACTLY the same internally.
There is a REASON they make them with and without air tubes. There will most likely be provisions internally for the added air injection, don't ya think?

Look, I'm not saying it WON'T work....but it COULD be a problem 15k miles down the road... If anyone wants to run it, more power to them. I'm just trying to keep the guy from getting nailed on an Emissions inspection.

[Ondonti]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 440trk I haven't had 'em apart to compare....have you? I doubt they are EXACTLY the same internally. There is a REASON they make them with and without air tubes. There will most likely be provisions internally for the added air injection, don't ya think? Look, I'm not saying it WON'T work....but it COULD be a problem 15k miles down the road... If anyone wants to run it, more power to them. I'm just trying to keep the guy from getting nailed on an Emissions inspection.

Why dont you go read some literature from the companies instead of hypothesize?

[440trk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ondonti Why dont you go read some literature from the companies instead of hypothesize?

Oh yea...SALES literature....great idea.
I'm sure they tell you EVERYTHING...

Why don't you go read some DOT emissions inspection regulations and get back to me on why using the incorrect catalytic converter is reason to fail a vehicle.

[440trk]

I'll save ya a little effort. This is directly from Magnaflow's website:


NOTICE TO REGULATED PARTIES

EPA Policy on Sale and Use of Aftermarket Catalytic Converters
A. ENFORCEMENT POLICY (General Requirements)
Regulated parties shall install new or used aftermarket catalytic converters on motor vehicles only if the converters are represented in writing by the distributor or manufacturer to have been tested according to the procedures in the Federal Register / Volume 51, No. 150 / Tuesday, August 5, 1986, and to have met the performance criteria specified. “Regulated Parties” means any person engaged in the business of repairing, servicing, selling, leasing or trading motor vehicle engines, or who operate a fleet of motor vehicles.

New or used aftermarket converters that meet the performance criteria specified in the Federal Register / Volume 51, No. 150 / Tuesday, August 5, 1986, may be installed in the following situations.

1. If the vehicle is missing a converter.
2. If a state or local inspection program has determined the existing converter has been lead-poisoned or damaged or otherwise needs replacement; or
3. If the vehicle is more than eight years old or has more than 80,000 miles, and a legitimate need for replacement has been established and documented.

B. DOCUMENTATION
In order to establish and document that the circumstance permitting replacement of an original or missing converter with an aftermarket converter meeting the required performance criteria exist; the installer must include the customer's name, complete address, and the make, model, year and mileage of the vehicle on the service invoice and on the warranty card (enclosed with the converter from the manufacturer), along with a stated reason for replacement.

Where a state or local government has determined that a converter is damaged or needs replacement, the service or repair facility must also retain a copy of the written statement or order by a proper government representative which indicated that the converter should be replaced. This should then be attached to the invoice.

Where the replacement need has not been verified by a proper state or local government representative, the customer and a representative of the service or repair facility must sign a statement which may be contained on the invoice or separate document verifying that replacement is justified. A printed statement (As seen at right) is included in each converter carton.

Installers must retain copies of the invoices and statements (as seen at right) for six (6) months, and the replaced converters (if any) for at least 15 days from the date of installation of the replaced converters. Replaced converters must be marked in such a way that they can be identified with particular customer invoices and statements and be available for EPA inspection.

Persons who install or sell aftermarket converters that do not meet the criteria and conditions specified in the Federal Register / Volume 51, No. 150 / Tuesday, August 5, 1986, may be considered liable for tampering or causing tampering.

Furthermore, the EPA has issued the following installation requirements.

1. The Converter be installed in one of the three situations outlined above.
2. The Converter be installed in the same location as the original converter(s).
3. The Converter be the same type as the original converter (i.e., oxidation, three-way or three-way plus oxidation).
4. The Converter be the proper one for the vehicle application as determined and specified by the manufacturer.
5. The Converter be connected properly to any existing air injection components on the vehicle.
6. The Converter be installed with any other required converters for a particular application.
7. The Converter be accompanied by a warranty information card to be filled out by the installer.

[440trk]

Again from Magnaflows site:

Converter Basics - MagnaFlow Catalytic Converters by Car Sound