Auto-Rx - Some Amazing Results.

[c2xejk]

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Apples and Oranges My van was owned by an old man, who drove it very slowly, and he only drove it for very short trips. Your van was driven hard. That's part of the reason why, my van had sludge and badly coked up ring packs, and your van did not have those problems.

My comments were made based on what you wrote. Quoting from your statement above.

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The dealership that did the 5/50 warranty service, apparently used cheap oil and those infamous MOPAR filters, which back then were really just crappy re-branded fleet service Frams. I honestly BION never dreamed that such a thing could ever happen. I did not know, back them, that 5 STAR Dodge dealerships are quite often really just STEALERSHIPS.

I was just saying, that I doubt the previous owner of my van took a lower level of care of my van. He probably took it to the cheapest quick change oil place he could find. And that is likely only when he did actually have the oil changed... My van likely got the same level filters and oil for a much longer period of time...

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Since apparently you missed it. The point is that my van no longer has any sludge or coked up ring packs.

Are these the same gains that you thought you had with the AFPR?

I serious doubt that the increase in performance would exceed a few hp at best...

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Are you still sore because I wouldn't use your exhaust inserts? Looks that way from here Ed. Please get over it.

That really didn't phase me. I was expecting that out come... I have moved on to plan B. Mike has them in his car and is durability testing them. In a month or two we will get the dyne data. Since Mike's car has ported heads, it won't give me the data that I really wanted, but it will give me a data point.

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By the way. What rpm is your van set to idle at?

800 RPM. Same as for an automatic. It is still running the factory AT ECU.

[lookin]

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Originally Posted by c2xejk Quote: Apples and Oranges My van was owned by an old man, who drove it very slowly, and he only drove it for very short trips. Your van was driven hard. That's part of the reason why, my van had sludge and badly coked up ring packs, and your van did not have those problems. My comments were made based on what you wrote. Quoting from your statement above. Quote: Quote:The dealership that did the 5/50 warranty service, apparently used cheap oil and those infamous MOPAR filters, which back then were really just crappy re-branded fleet service Frams. I honestly BION never dreamed that such a thing could ever happen. I did not know, back them, that 5 STAR Dodge dealerships are quite often really just STEALERSHIPS. I was just saying, that I doubt the previous owner of my van took a lower level of care of my van. He probably took it to the cheapest quick change oil place he could find. And that is likely only when he did actually have the oil changed... My van likely got the same level filters and oil for a much longer period of time...

Lets see now, .... crappy oil and filters, and the van was only driven for short distances .... very slowly. hmmmm You really couldn't do the math on that? You know what. I don't believe, for one minute, that you could not add that up Ed.

We both know there is a lot more to this than your, probably inaccurate assumptions about the OCIs' or even what oil and filters were used on your van, .... that made such a big difference in ring seal between our vans.

I bet what you wrote below is pretty accurate, and the fact that your van, didn't have sludge and coked ring packs, just proves it.

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Originally Posted by c2xejk LOL. I bought my van with 150K miles from a guy that ran cars until hard until they had problems and sold them.

The previous owner of my van was an old man, who drove it very slowly, for only very short trips however. We both know, that is a recipe for sludge and coked ring packs even with timely OCIs, and whadaya know, my van 'had' both problems and yours didn't. Imagine that.

Your van was driven hard. That right there, made a lot of difference, unless it really was inadequately lubricated. Since however it had neither sludge or coked ring packs, as evidenced by the good ring seal, obviously your van got better lubrication than you think it did.

Well anyway, the whole point is, that my van no longer has sludge and coked ring packs, ..... because Auto-Rx got rid of it. That is the subject of this thread Ed. It is not an opportunity for you to try to spin it, in a botched attempt, to make me look foolish.

Please, once again, get over it.

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Originally Posted by c2xejk Quote: Are you still sore because I wouldn't use your exhaust inserts? Looks that way from here Ed. Please get over it. That really didn't phase me. I was expecting that out come... I have moved on to plan B. Mike has them in his car and is durability testing them. In a month or two we will get the dyne data. Since Mike's car has ported heads, it won't give me the data that I really wanted, but it will give me a data point.

Is that right.

Lets drop the bullshit now Ed.

I was surprised that you had me drive all the way down there, supposedly just to dyno test your inserts, and then you said you didn't want to test them. WTH?

That made no sense, since we agreed before "dyno day", that we would test them and then take them out. Me buying them was only an option. You even said, on the phone, "it is all about testing them not selling them to you". Guess why I specifically asked about that Ed.

Then you showed me your inserts, and when I saw that they were just flimsy roughly cut .0004 sheet metal mock ups, well, boy howdy, did I suddenly see you in a whole new light.

I told you I knew they would burn up and possibly wedge in my exhaust manifold, or at least trash my cat, and you said they wouldn't. I didn't want to insult you or hurt your feelings. I even stupidly said that we could go ahead and test them, and then we could take them out because I didn't want them. But you said, "no that's OK, since you are here lets just put your van on the dyno and see what it says." I couldn't believe, how after the dyno run, you even asked me again to buy them.

So you thought, that I backed out of buying those heads from you, because I have "some sort of thing" for backing out of deals or something? LOL Well Ed, truth is, I just couldn't shake the strong feeling that I should not trust either you 'or' your products. That's all. Turned out I my intuition was totally right on too.

I wish Mike lots of luck having those crappy mock ups in his engine. LOL If, what you said about that is true, I guarantee he will have problems.

[m90daytona]

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Originally Posted by lookin Lets see now, .... crappy oil and filters, and the van was only driven for short distances .... very slowly. hmmmm You really couldn't do the math on that? You know what. I don't believe, for one minute, that you could not add that up Ed. We both know there is a lot more to this than your, probably inaccurate assumptions about the OCIs' or even what oil and filters were used on your van, .... that made such a big difference in ring seal between our vans. I bet what you wrote below is pretty accurate, and the fact that your van, didn't have sludge and coked ring packs, just proves it. The previous owner of my van was an old man, who drove it very slowly, for only very short trips however. We both know, that is a recipe for sludge and coked ring packs even with timely OCIs, and whadaya know, my van 'had' both problems and yours didn't. Imagine that. Your van was driven hard. That right there, made a lot of difference, unless it really was inadequately lubricated. Since however it had neither sludge or coked ring packs, as evidenced by the good ring seal, obviously your van got better lubrication than you think it did. Well anyway, the whole point is, that my van no longer has sludge and coked ring packs, ..... because Auto-Rx got rid of it. That is the subject of this thread Ed. It is not an opportunity for you to try to spin it, in a botched attempt, to make me look foolish. Please, once again, get over it. Is that right. Lets drop the bullshit now Ed. I was surprised that you had me drive all the way down there, supposedly just to dyno test your inserts, and then you said you didn't want to test them. WTH? That made no sense, since we agreed before "dyno day", that we would test them and then take them out. Me buying them was only an option. You even said, on the phone, "it is all about testing them not selling them to you". Guess why I specifically asked about that Ed. Then you showed me your inserts, and when I saw that they were just flimsy roughly cut .0004 sheet metal mock ups, well, boy howdy, did I suddenly see you in a whole new light. I told you I knew they would burn up and possibly wedge in my exhaust manifold, or at least trash my cat, and you said they wouldn't. I didn't want to insult you or hurt your feelings. I even stupidly said that we could go ahead and test them, and then we could take them out because I didn't want them. But you said, "no that's OK, since you are here lets just put your van on the dyno and see what it says." I couldn't believe, how after the dyno run, you even asked me again to buy them. So you thought, that I backed out of buying those heads from you, because I have "some sort of thing" for backing out of deals or something? LOL Well Ed, truth is, I just couldn't shake the strong feeling that I should not trust either you 'or' your products. That's all. Turned out I my intuition was totally right on too. I wish Mike lots of luck having those crappy mock ups in his engine. LOL If, what you said about that is true, I guarantee he will have problems.

sounds like a pissing contest


back on topic, i am not a firm believer in "this oil vs. that oil vs. this filter vs. that filter etc..." i have been running whatevers cheap in my 97 maxima from the time i bought it (85k miles) to now (268k miles), only changing the oil every 10,000 miles and have never had a problem. in fact, i ran the best quarter mile that it ever had last fall at 14.6 @ 96mph. i also got the best gas mileage the car has ever gotten at 33.3mpg. a local friend of mine has a 96 neon w/ 186k and he hasnt changed the oil in 40,000 miles. he changed the filter twice and tops it off when its low. thing runs like a top and gets almost 40mpg. in a car i care about, i dont do things like that, but i firmly believe that if the oil is and filter is changed at that right intervals, it will not sludge up. even if its fram filters and plain pensoil. my $0.02

[mwrenn]

There's a big difference I noticed between synthetic and ashless dispersant oils when I tear down engines. Mostly air cooled aircraft powerplants. The AD oils sludge up and leave carbon deposits. The synthetics don't. This is with regularly scheduled changes, (50 hours), and identical engines.

[lookin]

m90daytona

I pretty much agree.

Driving only short trips, and babying an engine too much, is the main cause of sludge and coked ring packs. The cheap bulk oil, available back in the mid 90s, just made sludging and coking a sure thing under such driving conditions is all. The GRP II "dino" oil available today, is far better than even premium motor oils, of not that long ago.

The fact that Auto-Rx totally removes sludge and decokes your ring packs is the subject of this thread though.

[lookin]

Mike

By synthetic, do you mean GRP III synthetic oil like Valvoline Synpower and Penzoil Platinum etc? Or do you mean GRP IV and V synthetic like Amsoil and Redline etc?

[lookin]

BITOG: What started Pennzoil dino sludge rumors?

The rumor is false by the way.

[lookin]

The original article - SYNTHETIC OIL: Rx FOR LONG ENGINE LIFE

[440trk]

So you've actually torn down the engine and can confirm the condition of your rings before/after use? If not, how can you possibly say what condition your rings were in before/after? While I don't doubt that you noticed some improvements, making absolute claims about what happened inside your engine is silly.
Just using thicker oils (or thick oil additives) typically improve ring seal and slow down oil consumption..that doesn't necessarily mean that it effect the condition of the rings or the valve seals. I'm not knocking you, or your experience with Auto RX....Just saying that making unfounded cliams, just because the seller tells you it's fact, does not necessarily make it fact.

Bob is the oil guy has some interesting info...however, he also has some personal preferences, and as such, does not always offer a non-biased opinion. Just look at some of his Amsoil testing....
I'm neither defending or promoting Bob is the oil guy...just that sometimes his testing methods are not "true" comparisons, using equal control methods. He does have some interesting reading though.

Regardless, I'm glad you've noticed an improvement in how your van is running.

[lookin]

440trk

What told me I had a lot of carbon, somewhere inside the engine other than combustion chambers and valves, was the mass quantities of carbon grit present, in the oil filters I cut open, during the 2500 miles clean phase of the treatment.

True, I could be wrong, and it was something other than carbon. But whatever it was, had never been in my filters before, when I cut them open.

O miles

When I began the treatment I filled the crank with Havoline Deposit Shield 5W 30 dino. I also put on a Fleet Service filter made by Purolator, and I poured in 12 oz of Auto-Rx.

My boost/vacuum gage showed, that my engine had the same old 18-19 InHg, as it did the last time when I filled with it Valvoline 5W 30 dino.

It also still had the bad HLA ("lifter") clatter, that it developed in the previous weeks, and the engine ran exactly the same, as it did the last time I filled it with Valvoline dino.

I added nothing else. I drove the same way I always do.

The vacuum readings remained the same, the HLA clatter remained the same, and my gas mileage remained the same as always. The engine idled the same way it always had, and it performed the same as always.

275 miles

After about 275 miles however, I began to notice that the HLAs were really quieting down, and the idle was smoother, with a slight increase in rpm also. I then noted that my vacuum readings, were now 19 InHg at startup cold, when before I had to drive it until good and hot to get 19 InHg.

I had added nothing to the oil or gas, and I was driving the same as always, and yet those changes had begun to show. Then I started to get hopeful, but it was too soon to tell really. I kept my fingers crossed, and I kept on driving like a maniac, same as always.

500 miles

At about 500 miles, my HLAs were now quieter than ever before, and in fact they were very nearly silent. The engine also, no longer made that stupid ticking noise after shut down, as it always used to do.

I also noticed that it cranked faster at startup, and I even thought it began to feel more responsive. But naaaah, that's just wishful thinking I thought. Can't trust the butt dyno. Been there done that.

Then one evening after returning home, my partner asked me, what have you done to the van now? I asked, whudoyoumean honey? It's got more pep, she said. It's really something. Honest?!, I asked. Are you sure?, I asked. Yes I'm sure of it, she said. So what did you do to it?, she asked again. etc etc So after explaining about ARX, I thought WTH, and I took it out for a late night romp. I really drove it hard, on the back highway through corn country, and then I was sure it really is a bit stronger.

1100 miles there abouts

I had still changed nothing. No additives to the oil or gas. Nothing.

Then the HLA noise started to come back a little bit. I thought OH no, well great. WTH? I checked with the ARX forum and that is normal during the treatment. whew!

Then the HLAs went dead silent a few days later, and they have remained dead silent ever since. I mean my engine had never been so quite. I used to be able to hear them when I drove along this certain highway divider wall, as I did sometimes late at night when nobody was around, just to get an idea of how it sounded under load, and this time the HLAs were really, actually, quiet. I couldn't believe it! So I drove the wall again and listened more carefully. Wow. That's really something.

My boost/vacuum gage showed I was now getting 20 InHg at every traffic light. Before this it sometimes would be 18, sometimes it would be 19, and now it was always 20 InHg.

I also noticed I was getting a lot more vacuum at throttle letup, in third at 50 mph, and the engine pulled stronger with less throttle. My A604 also now shifted a little later at 3/4 throttle, and I am guessing it somehow senses Tq or something. Darned if I can understand how that could be. I swear that is the way it is though.

1250 or so miles

I changed the filter and cut it open. Man I had never seen anything like it. It was really heavy. The filter paper was super dark charcoal gray, and it was totally peppered with tiny shiny black flecks I had never seen in a filter before. I looked up the oil filter channel with a flashlight, and it was sparkling clean and shiny, also for the first time.

It just keeps going like that, very slow, subtle changes over the miles. The only thing, that Dy and I are both sure of, is that the van has a lot more power now, and we are getting 3 more miles per gallon. We are both very pleased.

2500 miles - the end of the clean phase -

First thing I noticed is this, and it really made me happy. Before draining the oil, I checked the oil level, and it was the same as it was two weeks prior. Now that is a BIG improvement there. Cool.

Oil fill cap off. Gee that underside is clean. Cam still has a little varnish, but wow those wear points are shiny clean.

Filter off. Heavy. Liquid black goo, not too thick, just different than for a normal oil change, and it was much much darker. It was a deep dark, shiny and uniform, coal black. I didn't bother cutting open the filter this time.

Drained the oil. Black as all get out, and yet not nearly as thin as usual when drained though. Less fuel dilution from blow-by?



0 miles - begin 3000 mile rinse phase - (about 2 weeks ago)

New Wix filter. To be changed next week. Most people use cheaper ones and wait longer, but I am stupid.

Crank filled with Valvoline 5W 30 dino. No ARX this time or anything else at all. That's how the rinse phase works. Just plain oil.

Van sprouts wings and flies 1100 mph. I see Rio for the first time. OK, that was, an exaggeration that time. My bad.

The clean phase is when the cleaning really begins to happen.

I changed that new filter last week. It was only slightly heavy this time. It was however, full of what looked exactly like molasses, after just one little week. I didn't cut it open, and no I didn't taste it.

Filled filter with Valvoline dino 5W 30. Replaced filter. I haven't notice any changes yet.

I started getting 21 InHg hot at idle. I am dismissing that however, because I put a tad of Honda 2 Cycle Racing oil in the gas, and that may have improved ring seal that much I suppose, maybe.

[mwrenn]

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Originally Posted by lookin Mike By synthetic, do you mean GRP III synthetic oil like Valvoline Synpower and Penzoil Platinum etc? Or do you mean GRP IV and V synthetic like Amsoil and Redline etc?

I gotta go get some links to the different types. I'll post em.
I'm gonna treat the baron, starting in two weeks or so. Thanks for posting the play by play results.

[mwrenn]

http://www.gilcooil.com/msds/Aeroshe...0SpecSheet.pdf
This is what I was referring to as "synthetic" in previous posts. It is a blend which makes it semi-synthetic. It is also referred to as an ashless dispersant, which I take to mean that it acts as a detergent. I was incorrect in grouping the non-synthetic oils as AD. Turns out that both the synthetic and non-synthetic are AD oils.

Shell Aviation - AeroShell Oil W100 Plus
This is the non-synthetic oil I was comparing the semi-synthetic to. Mineral based, detergent, not as effective as the semi-synthetic when it comes to sludge, carbon deposits etc...
No real comparison to automotive motor oils though, apples and oranges. LOL