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Old 04-22-2008, 09:28 PM   #16
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATaylorRacing View Post
I used to drag race a 94 3.0 Duster with an automatic that had @ 165 hp at the tires and about 175 @ crank. The biggest gain was an under drive pulley kit, getting rid of the stock a/f assembly, making a home made ram air set up, and a TB from a 87 3.0 mini-van. All that picked it up over 1/2 second and improved fuel economy by over 3 mpg. I also used a gutted cat and 2 chamber flowmaster ONLY after these previous mods were done. When I first got the car...NEW...I took it to the track with an electric sawzall and a Super Trapp with 24 discs and longer mtng screws. After 2 passes I cut off the muffler, the car slowed down! I put on the Trapp with no discs, still slower by less. I put in 12 discs and quicker, but not as fast as stock. It took 18 discs to make tyhe car .1 quicker than stock exhaust! After all the other mods the car ran quicker yet with a dump before the gutted cat. At @ 25,000 miles the car picked up @ 1/4 second with no other changes...must be broken in. The car was gutted down to 2450 lbs and ran 15.1s with my 265 lb butt in it, but putting my 140 lb son in it for his 1st pass ever down the 1/4 made it break into the high 14s.....I also had a 10% lower gear ratio and 20x8x14 slicks.

What is the stock a/f assembly? do you mean a/c assembly?

Also here is a list of sunminds 3.0 mods which dyno'ed 220fwhp:
Quote:
cylinder heads – extrude-honed, ported and flowed
camshaft bearing caps precision line-bored
valve seats multi-angle grind
phosphor bronze valve guides
lightweight, low profile, competition valves (“Super Alloy”)
plenum and lower intake - extrude-honed, ported and flowed
billet sprint (270º ) camshafts
forged domed pistons with milled skirts (11.0:1)
racing piston rings
chrome moly forged connecting rods
main and rod competition bearings
block tanked, decked and honed (91.5 mm.)
crankshaft knife-edged, polished and balanced with entire rotating assembly
competition double valve springs
adjustable, lightweight vernier cam gears
phenolic heat shunt
programable engine management system
six individual coilpacks
custom oversized and polished throttle body
braided steel fuel hoses with bronze connectors
custom fabricated fuel rail loops
stepper motor adapter
dry-cell battery
modified injector harnesses
8.5mm. competition ignition cables and connectors
port-matched, mandrel-bent headers in stainless steel
complete exhaust system in stainless steel
thermal barrier treatment - valve covers (also teflon-lined)
stainless steel high-flow race air filter
custom intake pipe, thermal coated inside and out
heat-protected and rewired engine and ecu/injector harnesses
lightened and balanced flywheel
dual friction competition clutch
oversized aluminum radiator
remote oil filter system
oil cooler
egr block-off plates
engine machining and build by Rogers Engines and Machine
engine balanced and lightened by Bouchers Automotive Machine
engine management system built and tuned by Imagine Injection
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:09 PM   #17
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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That's a sickening amount of mods only to make 220 fwhp. I can only imagine how much it all cost
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:19 PM   #18
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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thats on the 12v. im hoping to get over 200whp on a good tune with only headers, DIS, CAI, and the Megasquirt :-D
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Old 04-22-2008, 10:36 PM   #19
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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That's a sickening amount of mods only to make 220 fwhp. I can only imagine how much it all cost
How is that? the stock 3S engines usually put down 160hp but around 120-130whp like our 3.0's. He got around 90 extra horsepower, and the engine is overbuilt. I think he had over 8k into his engine IIRC.

A stroker kit with high comp pistons, high flow heads and cams would be alot simpler and cheaper than sunminds setup!
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Old 04-23-2008, 12:43 AM   #20
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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How bout a snail? Thatll get you some power for alot less too.
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Old 04-23-2008, 03:16 PM   #21
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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By removing stock a/f assembly I meant the restrictive air filter assembly. Google search Angelo Taylor Racing and in the photo section will some pics of the Duster 3.0 that I used to have...the photo did not show a CAI hose that I ran from beside the rad into the air horn on the TB.
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Old 04-23-2008, 04:36 PM   #22
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATaylorRacing View Post
By removing stock a/f assembly I meant the restrictive air filter assembly. Google search Angelo Taylor Racing and in the photo section will some pics of the Duster 3.0 that I used to have...the photo did not show a CAI hose that I ran from beside the rad into the air horn on the TB.
Ahh, other than a/c, when I see a/f I automatically think air/fuel LOL. But yes, remove the crappy stock Air filter assy and toss something else in.

I was trying to find a ram air horn off the TB like you had not too long ago but couldn't find what I want and also figured it is going to pull alot of hot air from the crossover exhaust pipe so I made a cheap $30 2.5" CAI which draws air in from where the battery used to sit.

Quote:
How bout a snail? Thatll get you some power for alot less too.
Although supercharging and turbocharging might be cheaper than a all-motor build it isn't the topic of this thread that the OP posted.

If sunmind dropped his 11.0:1 pistons for some 8.0:1 pistons and forced induction he would have a lot better base now that his engine breathes better than stock (just like brents setup just with FI) but again, this thread is if you can get 200 crank HP which sunmind has done and I just posted what his list was to make 220fwhp.

If we had more info on Rick Loziers setup that was a build up that was 250hp N/A
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:44 PM   #23
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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That's a sickening amount of mods only to make 220 fwhp. I can only imagine how much it all cost
Only half of those mods are "performance"

And I think Ed will agree that Extrude honing is not the way to port our heads.

Even though that list says "flowed" he doesnt have any flow information or was not willing to share because I dont think he wants to be embarrassed because the heads were ported improperly. He feels that because the service was expensive and that extrude hone is a large company, that they must have done a good job.

He also says that he stayed with stock size valves. So he extrude honed all the ports massively larger and then went with stock size valves.

There is a lot more power to be made there with proper mods. That was also a "new engine" tune and his camshaft is very conservative.
It wouldnt be hard to get 40+whp more out of that engine with bigger cams and better heads from Ed. He has engine management so he doesnt need to stick in our 3000-5500rpm powerband. He doesnt really want to change cams because his are billet RPW cams that cost about 1000 bucks and who knows if he would like the powerband of a new cam.

He did have a problem with one of the idiot mechanics that worked on his car overreving his motor (who knows how high) and destroying the lifters. That makes me feel good because the rockers were not destroyed and Frank had thought that they were a weakness at high rpms.

That basically means anyone who wants to test the rpm limit of the 3.0 would probably just face replacing some lifters and then they would know how high their motor could handle reving (assuming you make enough power there to be worth it).

Anyways, almost doubling the hp of a motor n/a with mild cams and bad heads is pretty impressive.
And yes, it is massively overbuilt for n/a purposes. He could throw a 400 shot of nitrous on there most likely and have few problems.
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:25 PM   #24
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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Rogue...I've posted everything I know for fact about Charlotte(my/was Rick's car). I will be diving in to it a bit deeper this summer I hope. I HAVE to get another car running before I tackle that one though. However, ALL information I know for fact about the car IS posted here!
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Old 04-23-2008, 09:46 PM   #25
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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Rogue...I've posted everything I know for fact about Charlotte(my/was Rick's car). I will be diving in to it a bit deeper this summer I hope. I HAVE to get another car running before I tackle that one though. However, ALL information I know for fact about the car IS posted here!
Yep, I know your tapped for info on the engine, I hope to be able to add more info to the thread I started dedicated to charlotte's build. All that was really left was the stroker information, the compression and a few other small details. I'm not pressuring ya, just would like good documentation on its build.

I wonder If ray pampena 3.7 stroker kit would work well with the SOHC 3.0, Does he have to cut reliefs into the block at all? Also how good of a cam do we need to use his kit?
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Old 04-23-2008, 10:51 PM   #26
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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Ray's Billet crank wont fit in 2 bolt blocks because the 2 bolt block requires more clearancing then the 4 bolt.

BUT.

He does have a cheaper alternative which is machining the 6g74 or 6g75 crankshaft to fit the 3.0 journals and he leaves a nice radius on everything to help keep it stronger then a stock 3.0 crank. I dont know if he offset grinds the rod journals but if he does, he isnt going smaller then stock 6g72 so its not like offset grinding a 6g72 crank.
Will still require custom rods.

Both setups wont do 3.6-3.8L of displacement without a large overbore though. Rays billet 3.7 with a small overbore only displaces 3.54L (and that is what is in Matt Monett's 8 second 3/S).
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Old 04-24-2008, 07:42 AM   #27
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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were can i find this crank, and which would be more cost effective
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:01 PM   #28
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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A few years ago at Indy one of the track workers that works for a fork lift company doing repairs said that there is a huge industrial forklift that uses a Mitsu supercharged 3.0 and runs on propane!!!
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Old 04-24-2008, 03:26 PM   #29
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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were can i find this crank, and which would be more cost effective
You would have to contact Ray pampena. A good stroker is not going to be cost effective no matter how cheap it is.

The difference in price from billet to 6g75 reground for 6g72 size is like 10,500 compared to 5500 (assuming you paid for the whole shortblock). But you cant get a billet crank to fit in a 2 bolt block so there is nothing to worry about.
6g72 12valve needs work on heads/cams before you worry about that. There is no point gaining that displacement if you cant use it. That is just dumping money down the tubes. Better off with stock 3.0ish displacement with big overbores.
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:23 PM   #30
Re: How to get 200 crank HP out of a n/a 3.0?  
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What is the stock a/f assembly? do you mean a/c assembly?

Also here is a list of sunminds 3.0 mods which dyno'ed 220fwhp:
Anybody have a link to his results? (ie. dyno traces)
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