3.0 4-speed auto puzzled.

[GentleCowboy]

Hey Gang, I posted this in the transmission topics but no reply so I reposting it here.
as I posted couple of weeks ago I have my 95 lebaron convertible on the road now. I drove it dayly for debugging with the new jy motor and it runs like a swiss clock, no oil consumption and of course I use full synthetic.
Now I've decided do drive down to Annapolis MD. to my boat this past weekend. (I live in Ontario close to Niagara Falls). So it is about 500 miles one way trip. I was driving along I-390 south and everything was just gorgeous weather and the rest at 75 mph, when a 9.3 Saab was playing tricks on me whenever I would get within 100 feet of his rear end he would rev up and go. I was on the passing lane he was far right. I could not help it and when the opportunity arose I smoked him and that was the end of it.
It was about 7:30 PM and I was lucky there was no trooper available at the moment, I was doing 110 passing.
To make the long story short not to far down the road I started having funny shifting patterns on my tranny. It would go from OD to 3rd and then OD to second and back and forth. It felt like there was no pumping of tranny fluid So I thought to my self the filter is plugged. So itwould go back to normal for a while and then back again.
Finally I arrived to the Marina and I got to my boat dead tired and puzzled
thinking to change filter and tranny fluid next morning and everything will be fine.
It was not going in to a limp mode so I said it is not the ECU. BTW it is not vented so I think it is not flashable.
In the morning I went to Advanced auto parts and got ATF+4 and Lucas and filter kit. All done except that SOB PO had used black RTV instead of gasket and Sunday afternoon under a beautiful sun I took the way home again.
After a while on the road started doing the same thing again. I stopped and disconnected the computer. It was ok for a while then back again.
I noticed when rolling at about 60 my RPM were 1800 so I reved up in neural and the rpm went 900 and the problem went away.
SO that's what I did all the time when the problem was there until I got back. It is not seem to be there when driving short distance or frequent stops. I have no codes whatsoever except the 12-55.
My question is, does the TPS have anything to do with the ECU?
I know there is no VSS and it is through the tranny ECU. Any bright Ideas?
I am in the process of getting a 5 speed for the swap but in the meantime
I need to know what is going on.
Any one had this kind of behavior from a crappy auto?

[lookin]

Sounds like your speed distance sensor to me.

Pop the hood and take a peak at the electrical connections, at the front and on top of your trans, near the ATF cooler lines.

Make sure they are clean and well connected. There are a couple of different connectors here and there.

[87turbodance]

Your speedometer would go crazy if you had a bad output sensor. There is no speed / distance sensor on the later models. Perhaps the turbine speed sensor (input speed)? The TPS signal is shared between the engine computer and the trans computer. A shop with a diagnostic tool for the trans computer could scan while the problem is occuring and see what it is.

[lookin]

Oh ... oopsi then.

Darned if I could remember what they call that thingy on A604s. It sort of works the same way though right?

His foot in it, and taking it up over 100, is what made me think that.

[GentleCowboy]

I don't have a speed sensor and I cleaned and use dielectric grease on all the connections before I get the car on the road. That's why I am puzzled.
Now it drives fine and shifts fine. I have no indication of TPS acting funny and no codes.

[lookin]

That is a puzzler. I would take 87turbodance's advice, and get it scanned at a shop. I don't know if the TCU stores codes though, and so it may need to be doing it while it is being scanned.

[jjjacer]

maybe tranny overheated, or got hot. dont know what kind of effect that does but if you speeding or long distance id think about that too

[GentleCowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookin That is a puzzler. I would take 87turbodance's advice, and get it scanned at a shop. I don't know if the TCU stores codes though, and so it may need to be doing it while it is being scanned.

I work for Dewildt Honda/Chrysler as a mechanic. I have my own scanner but I haven't got a cartridge yet for the 95. The 89 Turbo I can drag it with me have it hooked up and check everything while on the road. I am going down to my boat this weekend too so I will check if it has corrected it self after the fluid change.

[GentleCowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjacer maybe tranny overheated, or got hot. dont know what kind of effect that does but if you speeding or long distance id think about that too

You could be right. I have a tranny fluid cooler but haven't had the time to install it yet. But why would it correct itself when I would be rolling and in neutral i would rev up? That is what makes me want to go swimming in a frozen lake

[SpeedyEd]

I had a problem with the 3-speed w/lockup. After flooring the throttle it acted -up, eventually it would clear up, only to return the next time I floored it. I found the kick-down lever was sticking (battery fumes, corrosion). A liberal spray with PB Blaster cured the problem.
SpeedyEd

[GentleCowboy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpeedyEd I had a problem with the 3-speed w/lockup. After flooring the throttle it acted -up, eventually it would clear up, only to return the next time I floored it. I found the kick-down lever was sticking (battery fumes, corrosion). A liberal spray with PB Blaster cured the problem. SpeedyEd

It is a 95 speedyEd, it does not have kick down lever, i downshift manually for passing for better results an better for the tranny. I still tink it could be related to the TPS, I will change it tonight and do some test drive long distance.

[SpeedyEd]

Hey GC,
I passed your problem on to a former Chrysler Trans Tech. He suggested that your TPS output may be off enough to confuse the computer, but not enough to throw a code. Possibly input voltage out of spec?
You said you don't have a speed sensor, how does the comp. measure road speed? If that is outside normal parameters, that too would confuse the gear selection choice.
I'll ask about what replaces the VSS in the '95 model.
SpeedyEd

[GentleCowboy]

Hey SE, thanks for the effort, I can see how a TPS input voltage may cause this to happen. It is possible. as for the speed sensor signal, I am not 100 % sure how it does it, the TCU calculates the primary shaft rpm and converts it into voltage to the ECU and then goes to the speedometer but as i say I am not sure how. It seems to be alright now. We had rain and drizzle today up here, so tomorrow morning weather permiting I will replace my TPS and with the one on the original throttle body and I will see from there. What I have now is the set up from the used motor that I got from the local JY, it is out of 92 sipirit, they could be different although i don't have any other indicatin that the TPS is faulty, like unsteady RPM that seem to surge up and down and the like. Thanks

[SpeedyEd]

Hey GC,
I looked at a 4 speed case & there is an opening at the rear of the case that might have held an output shaft sensor. I don't know what year the case is, picked it up to compare 3.0 & 3.8 bolt patterns.
SpeedyEd
I found this on Allpar:
The vehicle speed signal that drives the speedometer and odometer and is used by engine controller is provided by the TCM. This makes the speedometer and odometer highly accurate, eliminates the need for a separate vehicle speed sensor and simplifies the wiring by eliminating two of the three wires the vehicle speed sensor required.

The electronic transaxle supplies an output shaft speed signal the primary purpose of which is to control shift quality. The TCM translates this signal into an output that mimics the signal from a vehicle speed sensor. A correlation factor transforms this signal into a vehicle speed signal by adjusting for variations in gearing and tires. The correlation factor is programmed into the TCM memory.

[GentleCowboy]

Thanks SE, this is very nice of you, it certainly helps to understand all this electronic confusion that makes our cars run better.