Perhaps you can see the bolt head in the picture that is leaking coolant. It leaves about a 2 inch wide puddle overnight, but it does not get any bigger until I drive it again. Anyway, it is on the exhaust manifold (blue) just behind the turbo. I'm guessing that this bolt intersects with the cooling system? It looks like a beast to remove. Any tips on the removal process and what kind of sealant I should use?
Now that is mad coincidence...yes it can be serviced without tearing everything down...at least when I just had this issue, I was so tired of fixing small things, that there was no way I was getting under that car one more time...and took it to a local mechanic. Sometimes, the aggravation is worth paying someone else for working on!
Curious, how much did you pay for the service to fix your problem? I know what you mean about farming out problems. Though, as I am still addicted to saving money, it seems like I could remove the turbo hoses from the area and reach around from above instead of going under the vehicle.
What I paid doesn't matter in your context. I have almost a year of my spare time in this build and the only thing not yet redone is the paint which remains original white and rust free, being from the south...and the headliner could use a touch up. It matters how much determination to do it yourself you have left. For me it was a matter of "I've had enough" and had everything else done so OCD style it's not even funny. This one I just don't have time to mess with, and it was worth ANY amount of money to have someone else do it (that I trust). It was in for AC service anyway I'm sure you can fix it, but I sure as heck wouldn't try teflon tape, though I found one that's stronger than the white flimsy crap. I'd go with what NAJ recommended if I did it again.
Your burden vs cost analysis is very helpful and profound.... it leads me to the now frequent question, "what is it costing me for this to be my daily driver?" I agree, the numeric question differs from how this constant effort is weighing upon my broader enjoyment and function in life. The difference is that you had a last bit up the hill you wanted to farm out, then you are on top of a fresh build. In my case, I am running out of steam for this constant effort and the fee for the repair is happening at the bottom of the hill.
This question/consideration does not receive very much attention other than when you see people selling off their projects in our classifieds, but still, little to no backstory on the decision process.
Well, for me this started as a simple head gasket job on a car I picked up for my son. It turned into an overall mechanical rebuild. I was seriously surprised by studs into the water jackets...not cool. I hadn't ever had the studs out of a head on a prior build...and even then it was at least 20 years ago since I did this kind of stuff on a turbo car. I know that the mechanic didn't take the manifold off to get in there, so it's possible to get into it on a hoist at least. I'm too old to be under this car in the 100+ humidex heat out here lately. If this was the winter I'd jump right under there. If you pay someone you can expect a couple of shop hours no doubt.
Had this problem when I was taking off my manifold and the stud came with one of the bolts. I just used pliers to take the old one out and bought a new one at the hardware store. Coated a portion of the threads with some copper High Temp RTV gasket maker stuff and threw it back it with the locked bolt trick. few thousand miles on it and not a leak in sight. Good Luck!
Ideal fix would be done as stated above. Remove and reseal. Another option may be to add a "coolant supplement" tablet or 2. I know GM dealers used to keep them and some aftermarket companies make them. Basically it's stop leak that's intended for small static coolant leaks, things like porosity, metal to metal seepage like new freeze plugs in a rebuilt engine, and the like. It's not going to fix a water pump seal, blown head gasket, or rusted/corroded freeze plug. More is definitely not better. The heater cores on these are bad to get stopped up anyway so be very sparing. Again, don't get carried away with them or it's just as bad as dumping a big tube of stop leak in the radiator.
Another option may be to add a "coolant supplement" tablet or 2. I know GM dealers used to keep them and some aftermarket companies make them. Basically it's stop leak that's intended for small static coolant leaks, things like porosity, metal to metal seepage like new freeze plugs in a rebuilt engine, and the like. It's not going to fix a water pump seal, blown head gasket, or rusted/corroded freeze plug.
This would also be my first step, typically the threads leak because they are too clean. Cooling system crud usually builds up over time and seals leaking threads etc.
So, the leak has continued... Anyway, as I plan for the repair (to remove the stud) I will remove the turbo intake and exhaust hoses for access around the side of the block...it is the first stud/nut on the drivers side, behind the turbo.
Best case scenario is that the stud comes out with the nut. If not, my concern is that, if I use two thin M8 nuts locked together on the end of the stud, the nuts (only having about two threads each) will end up stripping the stud as I try to extract it. The stud was new a few years ago from Turbos Unleashed. Is the stud made with substantial material? Further, the idea of grabbing the stud with vice grips might just strip the hell out of it and I still can't get it out.
The safest strategy might be to just take off the nut and clean the stud and manifold area with brake cleaner and compressed air and fill it with sealant and replace. In this case, though it might not leak onto the floor, I don't know if coolant would continue to reach the exhaust manifold gasket and corrupt it and eventually allow exhaust gas into the cooling system, or something.
A wise (72 years old man) once told you that sometimes it's best to let a pro do it and tell you afterward the way he pulled the stud and sealed it. I had a head gasket replaced out of town once. Rented a car for a week and returned and picked the car up. I was cursing for 120 miles on the way home because the guy did not seal that stud and it started steaming after 5 minutes.
MY mechanic pulled the stud without pulling anything else.
Well, one thought that people may not like, but it IS true. Every new one built by the factory had a couple of tabs of sealant added to their systems...yes even turbo cars. I still had a minor leak, and added a couple since the entire system really was new including frost plugs, studs, and all gaskets. Other than that if I need to I'd be dropping the entire engine/trans out the bottom, and I'd never do another of these over the top...ever.
When I recently replaced my headgasket and manifold gaskets all threaded holes and their respective bolts had the threads chased, holes were blown out with brake cleaner and air.
The air will tell you if that hole/passage intersects with a coolant passage and all threaded holes that intersected with the coolant passages had Permatex Teflon Thread Sealer applied to the threads.
There is also one long bolt for the R/S engine mount bracket that runs into the water jacket.
If you apply compressed air, don't blow it into the threads of any stud you just chased (and blow the metal bits into the water jacketing/coolant) until you're absolutely sure the hole is blind.
I have ordered the thin stainless M8 1.25 nuts (to lock together) but need a thin wrench. Maybe I'll grind one rather than buy a whole set. Thanks for the input/reminder on not blowing crud into the block with compressed air. I have spoken with Chris at Turbos Unleashed and determined the hardness of the studs to be 10.9 (case hardened), so they should not be prone to being stripped by the nuts. His point is also that I might get lucky and the stud will come out with the nut (again, the head and stud set are new and were installed three years ago). I have the thread sealer recommended by NAJ earlier. I actually have the GM sealant tabs but have not tried them yet out of concern for adding sediment to the cooling system. I dissolved one in water just to look at it and it has the consistency of fine silt. My mechanic can look at the job next week, but between now and then I am going to take a shot myself.
I appreciate all this input. You guys are more accomplished at this stuff than I am. I work on my own house and washer/dryer and fix all my own stuff, but the learning curve is brutal. I'm always having to do so much recon and miss details in the process of doing the task. Doing things over is common, and sucks, but that is the deal. Maybe this makes me a better man each day; one thing I know, I don't like to cause my own problems and so I approach new territory cautiously. I can't leave it all to the pros, however, as I would go broke. Though, I did have my 40" white pine removed by pros...
Now that's unreal. I used the GM tabs also. Started with just two since the entire system was a fresh build. The leak is gone after a few trips into town and back. If I had to go back and build this motor again, I'd make sure to order factory length studs. The ones in that link are about 1/4" shorter than stock if I recall which makes you not want to torque them in and leave yourself short threaded on the nut end. Anyway. I wouldn't worry about two tabs in a fresh system. If you're worried, you can always refresh your coolant after the leak seals up and just add one for maintenance. Of course I'm not pulling manifolds in the car at this point. I'm just enjoying driving it and getting more break in miles at this point. I'm on the third conventional oil change and about to pull the plugs and check compression. It's running really smooth...better than my old T1 Charger by far. I agree entirely with your second paragraph. I'm the master of OCD repairs, but occasionally I have a redo because I got too OCD! One thing I was thinking is in hindsight I probably should have gone with a different coolant than the factory stuff, but I'm not flushing it just to go new style. Good luck!
OCD Edit: I've decided to pull the head and do this right. My other thread noted herein notes the 88-89 Turbo head and which holes are blind and which ones are not. Better safe than sorry since this new build is running so well. Good luck with your leak!
Well, definitely next time I do this I'll not run into this again. The newer studs/nuts I bought were the correct factory length which allows them to be torqued in enough with high heat sealant, that I'm not concerned about them coming out this time!
Thanks for the tips guys. Tore off the head, manifolds, etc and re-assembling super-properly this time now that I know which holes are into water jackets and which are into oil areas from going into the head bolt passages.
One last crazy question, just to be sure the turbo to manifold flange is sealed nicely, can I add a super fine amount of something like firegum or similar to be sure those less than perfect mating surfaces don't have any slight leak? I want to avoid any extra head back there and just thought maybe it's a good idea before I finish putting this together. Surfaces aren't that bad that they're need milling, but just nice to be sure.
That would make some sense as long as it doesn't make for a good fire! Probably helps with corrosion also.
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