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No Crank / No Start

2K views 12 replies 4 participants last post by  williestargell 
#1 · (Edited)
1983 Scamp GT

No Crank, No Start, No Sounds

Has always been hard to start - usually three attempts is the max it takes. I will try to give a concise list of what has been happening recently that is unusual, which may or may not be related.

- Number one, been turning off while driving. Doesn't seem to be dependent on being stopped or moving. It has cut out at a red light and on the highway. The electronics of the car will stay on, but the engine stops. This is usually accompanied with a burning oil smell, a sound of a light backfire(?) or crack, tach bounces, and a check engine light. It will start again once i pull over, which leads to #2

- Excessively hard to start lately. Turning the key will give one labored "chug", a pause, a few more crappy chugs, then a regular sounding start attempt. The initial shitty chug and the pause are new. lots of pedal pumping though has always been like that.

- Lots of white cakey corrosion on + Battery terminal. Never had this before. Always kind of hoped that one day my problem will be the classic bad battery connection but it never is. Never affected anything unusually, has been cleaned and hit with dielectric grease.

Battery reads 12.8 V

- A few months ago a friend gave me a jump but put the cables on backwards for the first few seconds. There was a bit of smoke, and some wires were hot. Nothing stuck out after that time, except the radio died. I can't remember anything being different.

Alternator had worked itself loose a little bit, it is now bolted tight and back where it should be. Headlights are normal brightness, other electronics work. Headlights didn't seem to dim with the key in the start position.



Does any of this sound like a bad starter? What are some tests I can do do diagnose? I have a few days though I'm parked at work and the neighbors aren't exactly understanding.

Thanks!
 
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#4 ·
First check is the grounds. Take each off and clean it, then put it on tight. Make sure your firewall and front lights/radiator support are grounded. Make sure the alternator is grounded.
I've noticed that Chrysler loves it's plug connectors. Get a small screw driver and a can of brake cleaner and a tube of dielectric grease. Carefully, can't over stress that on our old cars, open the connectors, clean, degrease, and put back together. Check the coil connectoins. Our hots and grounds even have connectors.
It doesn't really sound like it, but maybe the ignition switch or the computer or coil. The coil is easiest, the ignition switch toughest. I'd get a used computer just to have on hand anyhow.
 
#5 ·
Thanks corelokt -
I'm getting battery voltage to the coil, but I'll clean those connections too. Do you think I should focus on the ignition circuit? Alternator, coil, starter, ECM, lights, radiator... Anything else stand out? I'm a little wary of the ECM connectors - that style gets super brittle but I suppose I can get in there with a q-tip.

Does this sound like anything carb related? I've been meaning to replace mine
 
#7 ·
I am somewhat confused by the title of your thread, you stated no crank/no start.

No crank refers to the battery/starter system so when you turn the key to the start position you only get nothing, a click or the engine turns over slowly.

No start refers to the engine cranks/turns over normally but will not start.
This would result from a loss of spark, fuel or other engine mechanical issues but not related to the starter or battery.

Which scenario best describes your situation?
 
#8 ·
Hey NAJ -
Sorry we always called it a no crank no start vs a crank no start. Mines the former, it did nothing last evening - no clicks or anything. Today it cranked and started ok but turned off once while driving. But it seems to fall in the turning over slowly category.

All I found weird was a vacuum hose was disconnected, and cleaned up some grounds.
 
#9 ·
So you may have more than one issue or they may both be related.
Start with the "Will Not Crank" problem.

1)Battery is Fully Charged and Holds a Load.
2)Battery Terminals and Posts are Clean, Free of Corrosion and Tight.
3)Battery Cables are Tight on the Engine Block and Starter
4)Small Starter Wire is Tight On the Starter.
5)If ALL of that checks OK
6)When the Car will Not Crank and you get Nothing when turning the key to the "Start" position verify all Power is present at the Starter Relay.
a)Red, Constant Battery Power From the Battery through a Fusible Link.
b)Yellow, Switched Ignition Power from the Ignition Switch
Power will only be present with the key in the "Start" position.
c)Brown/Yellow, Ground
a)Bolted to Transaxle on a Manual Trans
b)Through Neutral Safety Switch on Auto Trans.
4)Brown, Power Out to the Starter

You may want to Physically Inspect the Ignition Switch and Connector for Damage/Looseness, etc.
With the Engine Running Perform a Wiggle Test on the Ignition Switch Connector to see if you can Duplicate the Problem of the Car Shutting Off.
 
#10 ·
Another thing to check. On the early carbed motors, the shutters on the rotor are grounded through the distributor shaft. If the shaft is rusty, it loses ground and can give you intermittent spark. Had that trouble on my Scamp years ago. Since you say the tach bounces when it dies on the road, that leads me to believe you are losing spark. On these older 2.2's, the tach is a traditional output from the coil negative terminal(like an aftermarket tach, unlike the turbo cars where it is an output from the ECU), so if you lose spark, you lose tach signal.

Also check the shutters on the rotor to see if they are lose. That can cause all kinds of trouble. They are just attached to the rotor by 4 plastic pins they melt over to hold it on. I had mine break last year and it left me stranded on the side of the road until I Macguyvered a solution that got me home...

Just like the turbo guys carry a spare HEP, I now carry a spare rotor... For the $1.95 they cost from Rock Auto, it is well worth it...
 
#11 ·
Sorry to have been absent from this thread for so long -

The no start problem didn't present itself again until the other day. I left it alone for two days, fired right up. It happened again on tuesday, and hasn't started on its own volition since. We had to push start it from cold, and I didn't like how it sounded when it was running. Also didn't high idle like normal to warm up, but i gave it some time before driving the four blocks home. Sounded shitty when revving or accelerating like stuttering. When i turn the key from OFF to ON, i hear a sound that seems to come from behind the glove box or center console area. It sounds kind of like a speaker pop or a turntable needle dropping. Radio was already dead btw. Then, turning from ON to START i hear a click and then a clack when i release the key. I'm assuming thats the starter clutch engaging and retracting? Thats it for noises though.

NAJ - I will be able to check the starter relay in the next few days. Thanks for the suggestions. Everything up to that checks out OK

83scamp - When you had the problem with the shutters, did it also prevent you from starting the car? I'll order a rotor, relay, HEP, and spark plugs... probably new plug wires to be safe.
 
#12 ·
When the shutter wheel let go, it would crank all I wanted, but it wouldn't start.

I'm actually having an intermittent issue right now with my starter. When it heat soaks, it doesn't want to engage. Key on, try to start it, and nothing, just the starter relay clicking. Get out, and tap the starter with a screwdriver, and it fires right up. No issues when the engine is cold. It cranks every time.

I should probably change it, but in a few weeks the Scamp is getting put away for the winter, and the turbo engine swap will start. It's getting a new starter over the winter to match the new A-520 trans that is going in, so I really don't want to spend money on it right now. I may pull it off, take it apart, and clean it up just to get me through...

You may want to pull the starter on yours and give it a good once-over...
 
#13 ·
Forgot to update this thread with results for anyone experiencing similar issues.

Starter was bad - couldn't see at first but a contact had snapped off. new (refurb) starter is much better than the old one was when it worked.

Stalling issues appear to have been isolated to fuel flow. Replaced the fuel filter and did a little work on the sticky choke plate, and haven't stalled since.

It is good to know about the HEP and rotor though, got a spare of each in the glove box. Thanks for all the help as usual guys!
 
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