Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST? - Turbo Dodge Forums : Turbo Dodge Forum for Turbo Mopars, Shelbys, Dodge Daytona, Dodge SRT-4, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Omni and more!
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post #1 of 76 Old 02-24-2017, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Hey guys,

About 2 weeks ago I put in a Stage 5, + 40's and 3-bar map in my 89 2.5 Lebaron 5 speed.
It's been really awesome. I love the performance!

First off, I have an LC-1 Innovate wideband installed.

About 5 days ago I swapped the stock fuel pump out for a 225 Walbro. At the same time, I swapped the FPR out for an adjustable one from Accufab.

After I installed the 225 pump, I felt good with going up to 15 psi with my grainger valve. At full boost, she was reading about 11.2 A/F. Felt like a rocket.

The only negatives after the fuel pump swap were
longer cranking to start the motor when cold
and poor fuel economy (like 23 highway when not going into boost---even though A/F was at about 14.7)

That fuel pump stuff is beside the point. My problem now is with the motor going lean!

So yesterday I started up the car and noticed I had a CHECK ENGINE LIGHT on. Flicked the key and came up with #23 -- bad air charge sensor. Drove it to work despite this CEL light. I noticed that as vacuum approached zero, my 14.5-ish idle A/F would drop to about 16 A/F. If I dipped slightly into boost, like I probably just touched 5 psi for a split second to test, the A/F would go even leaner to about 17. Needless to say, I was very careful to stay out of boost until I got home tonight.

Luckily I had an extra air charge sensor, so I swapped out the old, bad one, with the new one. The code went away. But she ran awful! First super lean. Then I gave it some gas and she came to like, idling decently with about 15 A/f. I raised the static fuel pressure from 40psi to 45 psi, and the idle A/F was around 14. Okay, it seemed fine. (If I pulled the vacuum line off the FPR, the pressure would increase and the A/F would go round 12.5)

So I took it for a spin. AGAIN with the going lean with reduced vacuum! At around 5-0 inches of vacuum, she had ~16a/f, and as soon as you dipped into boost, again, on the lean side at around 16-17 a/f.

I took it home and tried unhooking the MAP to see if that was the culprit, but as soon as I did, yup, a CEL came on and the thing got pig rich (9-10a/f) so yes the 3bar seems to be doing its job.

I am super frustrated! Any suggestions?
-sam
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post #2 of 76 Old 02-24-2017, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Should I try taking the Walbro out maybe?
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post #3 of 76 Old 02-24-2017, 04:55 AM
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

So it was fine before the fuel pump upgrade?
Did you by chance get a fake Chinese Walbro?

If everything was fine before the pump/regulator upgrade, I'd switch the regulator first, you shouldn't need an adjustable one with a good tune.
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post #4 of 76 Old 02-24-2017, 07:46 AM
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

what is your fuel pressure doing when your're going lean ?

if OK - then problem is "downstream": 'tune', injectors, sensor,..
if not OK - then problem is "upstream": filter, pump, pickup, fuel lines .. (didya kink one when doing the pumpp install?)
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post #5 of 76 Old 02-24-2017, 02:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Ok guys so in the interest of "starting fresh" I took off the adjustable FPR and put on my stock one.
At idle, 50 psi with vac connected
if you remove the hose you get 60 psi.
Idle a/f dances between 14-15 psi.
Right now I am think fuel pump.

I also took this video of me revving it up a little in neutral. It looks like it does get richer with less vacuum. So only under load is it leaning out. That's why I am think ping some kind of fuel flow issue. (Lines, pump, etc.)

Thanks for any ideas. No more working on the car for me today, I gotta get to work.
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post #6 of 76 Old 02-24-2017, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Alto View Post
So it was fine before the fuel pump upgrade?
Did you by chance get a fake Chinese Walbro?

If everything was fine before the pump/regulator upgrade, I'd switch the regulator first, you shouldn't need an adjustable one with a good tune.
Nope I got a real one from FWD performance. Thanks for the idea though!
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post #7 of 76 Old 02-24-2017, 02:54 PM
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

CHECKING FUEL PRESSURE
Checking Fuel Pressure 84-93 Turbo
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post #8 of 76 Old 02-24-2017, 04:15 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NAJ View Post
CHECKING FUEL PRESSURE
Checking Fuel Pressure 84-93 Turbo
Alright, well, I had a little bit of time so I followed these instructions.

With Key On/Engine Off:
I actuated the ASD and got 60 PSI
and then I kinked the return line (which is the one connected to the FPR, correct?) and got instantly 100 PSI

So. Does that rule out the fuel pump?

While running the ASD with the engine off I noticed I had a small fuel leak by the supply line. Funny... I tightened up the hose and the leak went away. I was hoping this was the source of my troubles...
But I took it for a test drive, and again, the same thing.

Also it idles kind of bad. Like when I started up the car after doing these tests it was super lean, around 18 a/f and then after a few revs went to a normal 14-15.
Also when I drive, it will idle high (~2000rpm) and a lil rich (maybe 12.8a/f) for a few seconds after a period of slight acceleration (remember, its a stick shift) before settling back down to 1000rpm

This is so weird, it was running top-notch just a few days ago. Like, flying down the highway good!

Last edited by jenkins71; 02-24-2017 at 05:56 PM.
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post #9 of 76 Old 02-25-2017, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Anyone got any bright ideas? I'll have some time tomorrow to run more tests and stuff if anyone can think of anything. I'm stumped!
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post #10 of 76 Old 02-26-2017, 07:41 AM
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Check the vacuum line to the to the baro solenoid and map sensor. Make sure no torn hole and everything is tight.

Check the fuel volume of the fuel pump.
How I tested my fuel flow and get exact liter per hour.

Got a scanner?
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post #11 of 76 Old 02-26-2017, 10:53 AM
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

I ask again.
what is your fuel Pressure when you're having your 'lean under boost' problem ?

THAT is the test...
not unloaded, not idling, not engine off...
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post #12 of 76 Old 02-26-2017, 10:57 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Quote:
Originally Posted by detobias View Post
I ask again.
what is your fuel Pressure when you're having your 'lean under boost' problem ?

THAT is the test...
not unloaded, not idling, not engine off...
Yeah.... unfortunately my pressure tester hose isn't long enough. About 5" too short for this to work. Unless I removed the hood..

And no, sadly, i don't have a scanner.
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post #13 of 76 Old 02-26-2017, 11:40 AM
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jenkins71 View Post
Yeah.... unfortunately my pressure tester hose isn't long enough. About 5" too short for this to work. Unless I removed the hood..

And no, sadly, i don't have a scanner.
It's about $10 in parts store fittings & line to fix that. Until you know what you have, everything is a guess.

Not trying to be a jerk about it, but until you know what is going on when you have issues, you can't fix it...
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post #14 of 76 Old 02-26-2017, 11:45 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 83scamp View Post
It's about $10 in parts store fittings & line to fix that. Until you know what you have, everything is a guess.

Not trying to be a jerk about it, but until you know what is going on when you have issues, you can't fix it...
No no, not at all!
I'd considered that but it seemed weird with the Schrader adapter at the end.... i guess you extend the gauge-end of the hose?

Hmmm
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post #15 of 76 Old 02-26-2017, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Stage 5, +40s, etc, going LEAN under BOOST?

Gonna go to Lowe's now and get stuff to extend the gauge!
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