odometer not working on 90 gtc

[charger R/T]

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcus5065 Just checked the flasher and PK/WT wire thing out. The flasher DOES give the PK/WT wire power; when the flasher is unplugged, the 7 volts goes away. Then I jumpered the L91 circuit (12v always on) to the PK/WT wire and the flasher operated each time. It appeared to cycle open close once then stay either open or close, but it could have just been me breaking connection or poor connection. However, neither side of the cars' turn signals lit up with the switch turned to the desired side and the circuit jumpered. Also, the indicators on the dash did not come up either. Now my next question is, why is the flasher supplying the circuit with only 7 volts instead of 12? Can't I manually operate the flasher to see if its actually putting 12 volts out or 7? If I do manually operate it, and the output to that terminal is 12, then that would mean something is drawing 5 volts from that circuit, correct? And, is there a way to determine if there is something drawing 5 of those volts from that circuit like a short or something? Oh, and the puter I'm at isn't displaying your 4 diagrams you posted, so either I'll have to wait, or perhaps you could post them in a different format? GIF or something?

recheck or refresh the page when I put the diagrams up they were very big. I just resized them to fit the page better. If they still don't show up PM me your email and I'll email them to you. The L32 wire goes onto the next page and feed the power into to all 4 relays. With the switch off there is no load on that wire. It is possible there is a short on that wire going to the relays or a relay has an issue. I would pull all 4 relays out and recheck voltage on the L32 wire at the combo flasher with the flasher hooked up. If the voltage is 12 volt I would put the relays in one at a time and check voltage after each one is put in. If you put one in and it drops pull it out and try a differant one in that spot. To see if the relay or the spot has an issue. If the voltage with the relays is still 7 volt I would try to remove the L32 wire from the combo flasher (or cut it a little bit away from the flasher so it can be repaired later) and check what the voltage coming out of the combo flasher is without the rest of the wiring in place If the voltage is 12 volt now there is an issue with the wire.
Tim

[NAJ]

First let me say that they made some improvements in the manuals from 90-92,they are showing exploded veiws and almost the entire circuit,unfortuatly a lot of the wire colors are the same but term location is different at the combo flasher and headlamp/TS switch.
I am basing the teminal location at the T/S switch on what you previously posted as the wire color to term location since the 1990 manual does not show term #'s.
I am also showing a diode package,4 T/S relays and 2 cornering lamp relays
(AJ Body only).
Funny thing is when I look up a pic of the relay bank they are not showing T/S relays.
The DB/PK wire from the cancellation switch to the combo flasher also splits at the flasher and runs to the diode package (near relay bank)the other wires out of the flasher are a ground (ZO1 BK) and the other 2(L32 PK/WT and L59 RD/LG) go to the R/F T/S relay where they split to the other 3 relays.
I would think you will have to track down where these 3 wires are actually running to so we know what is actually in the car.
L91 DB/PK from Combo Flasher to ?
L59 RD/LG from Combo Flasher to ?
L32 PK/WT from Combo Flasher to ?

[marcus5065]

Had to wait for it to stop pouring down rain... Anyways, I removed all four turn signal relays then tested the PK/WT wire for voltage. It still had 7 volts. Then I looked tried to remove the PK/WT wire from the flasher pigtail and determined that was impossible without tool J02978457729843012.999-2 or destroying the pigtail, so I just cut the wire about 2 inches up. The PK/WT wire still had 7 volts in it after cutting it 2" from the pigtail. Now I'm down to...? As far as tracking down those three wires, I'd bet they go to the relay bank. However, I'm out of daylight, and some R&R is desperately needed before bedtime. I'll track them down tomorrow, hopefully by my lunch break. And, did either of you say what you thought about the Diode package relay being absent? the pattern on the relay bank has one terminal in each corner of the square with an additional terminal dead center and bigger than the others. What does it do? Is it supposed to be there? Can either of you find a part number for it and/or price and availability if it is needed? I dont get back to my hometown till late friday night or early saturday morning. Thanks again for the help.

[NAJ]

This is why I wish I was able to get to my car so I could actually see what voltage is on the output of the combo flasher.
I never heard of the diode package until we started this project and there is no description in the manual.Being out of work I do not have access to a parts catalog.
I just hope you did not get a faulty flasher.

[charger R/T]

See if this relay panel looks to be set up like yours. Is your relay box marked for the positions or are you getting the locations from a diagram? The wire coming out of your combo relay is the power wire that actually lights the bulbs if the 92 diagram is correct enough for your car. It goes to the power in for the load to all four relays. When the relay is turned on the power would flow in that terminal and out to each of the bulbs needs to flash. So 7 volts can not be right it needs to be battery voltage. The relay panel I just posted (if correct) should show you where each terminal goes. The relays posted on page 3 of this thread shows terminals 60, 65, 46, 51 is the location the L32 wire is going. Pull the relays again and use the relay diagram to check the voltage of the locations just listed. If they are 7 volts at all 4 spots would indicate the diagram is correct and it would also knock off one of the items NAJ listed that needs answered.
Tim

[marcus5065]

Sorry for not replying any sooner. Had to wait on parts. Last week I ordered a flasher and a diode package from the dealership in my hometown; they came in yesterday but I won't be able to pick them up until tomorrow morning. I want to test the old flasher and the new one side by side before connecting the new one, to see if the new flasher puts out 12 volts or 7. What happens if the new flasher also puts out 7 volts? If the new flasher has 12 volts, then I'll check the terminals of the relays to see if they're getting the 12 volts.

Tim, the pic you sent me of the flasher relay panel is close, but not labeled the same. A few of the locations are placed in different locations, but the four turn signal relays appear to be in the same spots, as well as the diode package. The layout/pattern is the same (if your looking at where the wires enter the back of the relay bank), but the labeling is different on mine.

Also, should I not install the diode package relay right away, or just go ahead and put it in?

[NAJ]

If I am feeling ok tomorrow I will attempt to check the flasher voltages on my vehicle.

[marcus5065]

Thanks again both NAJ and Charger R/T. The flasher pigtail is posted. Top center (12 oclock) is the horizontal terminal of the flasher, and it is the PK/WH wire. Clockwise from there, the next is two wires @ the 3 oclock position. those are RD/GN and GN/RD. The next is the 6 oclock position and those are BL/PK and BL/RD or BL/Purple. Cant tell, i'm somewhat RD/GN colorblind. The last is the 9 oclock position and it is one wire that is black. The top terminal is the one with 7 volts out, and you'll notice that the wire is cut from trying the circuit draw/low output from flasher test. I believe i posted before that with the wire cut, the voltage on the PK/WH wire (that's cut) coming FROM the pigtail was 7 volts.

[marcus5065]

I've picked up the new flasher and diode package from the dealership. I haven't tried to install or test either. After looking at the diode package, I have come to the conclusion that I've never seen a relay like it before. it has 8 pins, but is the same size as a normal 4 or 5 pin relay. Also, the 4 middle pins are the normal 3/16th size, but the ones on the four corners are like 1/8th sized. Also, I noticed that three of the larger pins don't have any female METAL recepticles in the relay bank; the holes are there, but no wires run to them. The only wires going to the the socket for the diode package within the relay bank are on the four corners of the socket, and the one in the dead center. So, are they just extra or is the diode package incorrect? The parts guy said they couldnt find the diode package under the 1990 model year, but it shows the one I have for 91 through 95 as being all the same. Any thoughts? Also test procedure for the new flasher? I'll try to post pics as soon as I can.

[charger R/T]

its been a while any update on this?
Tim

[marcus5065]

Actually yes. I have been away and am still away at my SECOND 3 week annual training for the year. Anyways, the week before I got my diode package and new flasher unit in from the dealership. I was frustrated with waiting, and went ahead and installed the new flasher unit, and still got the same voltage of 7 and some change out of the voltage out to relays terminal. After seeing that the new flasher didn't resolve the problem, I installed the Diode package, which was 'unique' in appearance to say the least. I'll take a pic and post it since the underside of the dash is still torn apart. After installing the Diode package, and remembering to hold the wire that I cut from the flasher pigtail, I turned the switch on and the turn signals and hazards worked perfectly, outside and the indicators on the dash. So, long and short is that the MISSING Diode Package was the cause of the malfunction from the start. I have yet to check to see if the diode package back feeds voltage into that circuit that i cut, or to see if the voltage changes with the diode package installed. I'll do that just for S&G's before all is said and done. My only question is, why would the damn thing be missing in the first place? Obviously only the previous owner would be able to answer that question, or the person that removed it. Who knows. As long as the new one doesn't short out or something weird within a short amount of time, then I should be fine. Thanks NAJ and Charger R/T for your help. Sorry that I wasn't able to post sooner, I have been busy with my upcoming deployment and multiple AT's and stuff.

[charger R/T]

Thats great news that you got it working. The diode package will not backfeed anything for to the flasher.
Tim