Rough engine when first starts

[businessjeff]

On my 96 2.5 ever since I changed my plugs and oil When you first start the engine it runs real shitty.
80% of the time, when you hit the gas pedal it will die out; it only does this the very first time you hit the gas pedal.
As well with the rough idle, it has the very distinctive noise of a valve tick or exhaust tick. They both sound the same. But once the truck warms ups, this all goes away, the ticking and rough idle.

I think I used 10w-30, ill have to check. This may be the source of my problem, wrong weight oil.
Any ideas? Also it never did this before I did this little tune up.

[NAJ]

Your poor idle may well be an AIS related issue.See "Sticky, Help With Poor Idle" in the Help Section.
This is more than likely your ticking sound, we do this repair constantly on
2.5L Wranglers.

Manifold Studs Breaking
DATE: Dec. 11, 1998
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 11-07-98, DATED JUL. 31, 1998, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDE THE ADDITION OF MODEL YEARS, CLEAN POINTS, AND NEW PARTS.

NOTE: THIS INFORMATION APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH A 2.5L ENGINE **(SALES CODE EPE)** BUILT PRIOR TO DEC. 7, 1998 (MDH 1207XX).

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
The outer exhaust manifold studs may fatigue and break (Figure 1).

DIAGNOSIS:
Inspect either manifold stud for breakage. If breakage is noted, perform the Repair Procedure.

PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty Part No. Description
**2 06036193AA Stud, Exhaust Manifold**
**2 06036221AA Washer, Flat**
**2 06036171AA Nut & Washer**
2 33003332 Spacer
1 53020112 Gasket, Intake


REPAIR PROCEDURE:
This bulletin involves replacing both outer mounting studs, clamps, and nuts **with new parts** and tightening the outer studs to a reduced torque of **20 Nm (180 in. lbs.)**.

Remove the intake/exhaust manifold per service manual procedures to gain access to the broken stud(s).
Remove the outer studs from the cylinder head. Use a stud removal tool if possible or drill the broken stud from the head.
Install two new outer studs p/n 06036193AA into the cylinder block. **Torque the studs to 14 Nm (126 in. lbs.)**.
Clean any carbon deposits or debris from the exhaust manifold.
Reinstall the exhaust manifold. **Use only the new parts listed above to attach the outer ends (Figure 2).**
Torque the bolts in the order and specification as listed in Figure 2.
**NOTE: THE TORQUE SPECIFICATION FOR THE OUTER EXHAUST MANIFOLD STUDS HAVE BEEN REDUCED TO 20 NM (180 IN. LBS.)**.

POLICY:
Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.

TIME ALLOWANCE:
Labor Op. No. Time
09-45-01-92 2.0 Hrs.


FAILURE CODE:
Code Description
P8 New Part

[NAJ]

Here is another TSB that is related to your cold engine stalling condition.
I would certainly try cleaning the TB and AIS and Resetting AIS first.

, Hesitation, Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) $77 - Fuel System Lean
DATE: Nov. 8, 1996
NOTE: THIS BULLETIN APPLIES TO VEHICLES EQUIPPED WITH 2.5L ENGINES.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
MIL light may illuminate setting Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) $77 (fuel system lean) when diagnostics are performed. The vehicle may exhibit a cold engine idle shake, sag or hesitation with or without the trouble code.

DIAGNOSIS:
Using the Mopar Diagnostic System (MDS) or the Diagnostic Scan Tool (DRB III) with the appropriate Diagnostic Procedures Manual, verify all engine/transmission/speed control systems are functioning as designed. If Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) are present, record them on the repair order and repair as necessary before proceeding further with this bulletin. If no DTC's or those listed above are present and any of the above symptoms have been experienced, perform the Repair Procedure.

PARTS/EQUIPMENT REQUIRED:
Quantity
Part No.
Description

1

CH6000
Scan Tool (DRB III)

1

CH7035
General Purpose Interface Bus Cable (GPIB)

1

CH7000
J1962 Cable

1

04669020
Label - Authorized Software Update

1

04275086
Label - Authorized Modification

1

04883378
Fuel Rail Kit


NOTE: THE MDS AND DRBIII ARE REQUIRED TO PERFORM THIS REPAIR AND THE SYSTEM MUST BE OPERATING WITH RELEASE 20 OR HIGHER AND TIL CD RELEASE 1119 OR HIGHER MUST BE INSTALLED.

REPAIR PROCEDURE:
This repair involves selectively erasing and reprogramming the Powertrain Control Module (PCM) on TJ vehicles with new software (calibration changes) and installing a revised fuel rail on all listed vehicles.

NOTE: THE PCM REPROGRAMMING PROCEDURE APPLIES TO TJ VEHICLES. PROCEED TO STEP 11 FOR XJ & AN VEHICLES.

Connect the MDS (Mopar Diagnostic System) and DRB III (Scan Tool) to the vehicle and power them up.
Use the arrow keys and select #2 MDS DIAGNOSTICS on the DRB III MAIN MENU Screen.
Use the arrow keys and select DIAGNOSTIC MENU on the MDS, then press NEXT MENU.
Use the arrow keys and select VEHICLE CONTROLLER PROGRAMMING on the MDS, then press NEXT MENU.
Use the arrow keys and select PROGRAMMING OF ALL OTHER CONTROLLERS USING MDS & DRBIII on the MDS, then press NEXT MENU.
Follow the steps presented on the MDS and DRB III which will allow the DRB III to obtain the current part number of the PCM.
The MDS will display the part number of the PCM on the vehicle and the appropriate replacement part number, then press NEXT MENU to begin programming.
If the PCM on the vehicle has already been updated or programmed, a NO UPDATES AVAILABLE message will be displayed. Check the part number of the PCM on the vehicle and compare it to the part number displayed. If the PCM has already been updated, then another condition exists that will require further diagnosis and repair.

The MDS and DRB III will prompt for any operator action needed during the remainder of the programming process.
NOTE: THE FOLLOWING STEPS ARE REQUIRED BY LAW.

Type the necessary information on the "Authorized Software Update Label" P/N 4669020. Attach the label to the PCM and cover the label with the clear plastic overlay. (See Illustration)
Type the necessary information on the Authorized Modification Label and attach the label near the VECI Label. (See Illustration)
Remove the fuel tank filler cap.
Disconnect the battery negative cable.
Perform the fuel pressure release procedure to relieve any fuel system pressure that may be present on the inject rail. If you are not familiar with this procedure, refer to group 14 in the appropriate service manual.
Remove the air cleaner crossover tube.
Remove and tag each injector harness connector to identify them to the correct cylinder.
Remove the fuel supply line from the fuel rail.
Remove the automatic transmission throttle cable, if equipped, to gain access to the fuel rail.
Remove the fuel rail mounting bolts and remove the fuel rail.
Transfer the injectors from the original fuel rail to the new rail.
Lubricate the injector O-rings with clean engine oil and insert the new fuel rail into the manifold.
Install the fuel rail and tighten the mounting bolts to 11 Nm (100 in. Lbs.).
Connect the injector harness connectors to the injectors making sure to install them to correct injector tagged earlier.
Connect the fuel line to the fuel rail.
Remove the plug from the intake manifold in the location shown below. (See Illustration)
Install the vacuum fitting provided in the kit in the location of the removed plug.
Install the vacuum tube and connect it to the pressure regulator and the fitting on the manifold.
Connect the battery negative cable.
Install the fuel tank filler cap.
Select and install the appropriate VECI label over the original label with the revised label indicated on the conversion sheet supplied in the fuel rail kit.
POLICY:
Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.

TIME ALLOWANCE:
Labor Operation No.
Description
Time

14-70-14-94
Replace fuel rail & install vacuum fitting.
0.5 Hrs.

08-19-46-96
Reprogram Power Train Control Module.
0.5 Hrs.



FAILURE CODE:
Code
Description

FM

Flash Module

[businessjeff]

if a stud was broke causing the exhaust tick why would it go away once it warms up?
I thought maybe the gasket would be heated and expanded to fill the void. But I was thinking on the downpipe where a donut gasket would be.

Another thing, this happened right when I did plugs and oil and such. So im not so sure if thats it. I cant remember what someone told me once but it sounded like it could be the problem and I know that it had somthing to do with the oil. And seeing how I changed the oil it made sense. But I will look into this and porbably take it to a dealer to have it scanned.

No cel or mil lights are on.

[NAJ]

broken exhaust studs and cracked manifolds are common on 2.5L ,did you look to see? It will be one or both of the end studs.When the manifold expands it seals the leak.Take it from a Jeep Tech of 13 years, this is a common problem

[businessjeff]

I will have to check that out, that would most likely be my tick. Unless its in the heads and the oil is causing a valve to stick or something until the oil gets more viscous and frees up.

[businessjeff]

but lol, how bout that. All there is to being a tech is reading the sheet's how to step by step instructions... LoL

[NAJ]

They are Technical Service Bulletins.These Bulletins are put out by Chrysler for thier Techs for common occuring problems due to faults caused by manufacturing or engineering.They are not safety or emissions related so they do not qualify as recalls.
If it was only that easy as to read a sheet of paper.

[businessjeff]

oh btw what is AIS?

[NAJ]

AIS = Automatic Idle Speed.
It is a Stepper Motor with a Pintle that controls the amount of air that bypasses the throttle plate and and is used for idle speed modes of operation.
The controller moves the pintle in and out to change idle speed depending on conditions such as Cold Start, Hot Restart, Decel, Increased Engine Load
(A/C Compressor Engagement, Use of Rear Window Defog,Increased P/S Load)
The controller has no way of really knowing what position the pintle is in,it assumes it is correct when it requests changes. When you are cruising at steady throttle without load the controller requests an AIS reset. It will step the motor all the way in to 0 steps and then request it to step out so many steps so that the motor is in sync with the controller.It also assumes that the minimum throttle plate opening is passing the correct amount of air.
The PCV system is also calculated into the controller as this is a "Metered Vacuum Leak"
If you develop carbon buildup on the Throttle Plate,AIS Housing or AIS pintle it changes the amount of air that enters or makes the pintle bind and all idle speed corrections will be incorrect leading to cold start stalling,driveway dieout stalling on decel,etc.

[bm_zimmer]

you go to paragon at all naj???? sorry to hijack the thread lol.

[NAJ]

I do not know what paragon is so obvisously I don't.

[businessjeff]

so clean out the AIS as stated. Thanks so much

[NAJ]

Clean the entire tb including the throttle plate,ais housing, and ais pintle.
Use a throttle body cleaner.If it is extremly carboned you can remove the tb and use a soft bristled tooth brush.Removal is easy,cables,elec conns and 2 bolts. Get a New Gasket First.
There is an o'ring on the ais,do not lose it.

[businessjeff]

Just did it today and it worked.
Started it and it idles beautifully without hesitation or stalling.

Now just to fix the tick. I think I will actually whip up a set of headers when I take the old manifolds off just for the hell of it.

I think what made it do this immediately after my tune up is when I cleaned my TB. I took it off but I didnt clean the AIS at all. And I imagine that a lot of the carbon washed into those ports making it dramatically worse. It probably went strait from fine to NEEDS FIXED!!
Thanks again for the help.