Overheating Version 2.0

[IROCNOROLL]

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Originally Posted by DustinSlaven89 ok well, I dont think much or any coolant for that matter, is getting to the engine. It gets hot and it gets hot fast, and it stays hot, got home, took the RESERVOIR cap off and it was full of bubbling smoking coolant. will probably pick up a thing of coolant before going to work, and take my moms car, then put it in the radiator tonight after I get off. I dont know whats going on, but im losing coolant bad, there wasnt any in the radiator or reservoir a couple days ago after filling it about 2 weeks before. My grandpa, who has been around cars all his life, doesnt think its a gasket, he seems to think its a hose somewhere. but he doesnt know where, and it pisses me off. The air coming from the vents is hot also.

1.)Ok...hot air from the vents = at least moderate coolant flow thru the heater core.

2.)Do you have the alternator belt back side running the water pump, or the grooved side? Grooved side = running the water pump backwards.

3.) Grandpa, with all due respect, is probably missing the point here...hose leaks on these cars are simple to see, and to find. Coolant loss in the volume you are describing will be evident with at least coolant dripping on the ground where you are parked. Head gasket and/or other internal compression to coolant jacket leaks are very common to these engines, and this is where you really need to start.

4.) Dude...In case you haven't caught it in the other posts...Headgasket...
head cracked to compression...block cracked or pin holed to the water jacket. There have been several totally valid posts in this thread outlining what you need to do and how to go about it, maybe go back to the beginning and read through these diagnostic tidbits, and start at the beginning to really diagnose the problem instead of shotgunning and hoping to trip over the answer.

[mihulka3]

My 1994 Dodge Spirit has a small leak in the head gasket (100k)? If your Shadow has 100k on it and has the original head gasket I would replace it. Dodge 2.2/2.5's could rarely get a 100k on the gaskets. My 91 Acclaim screwed me (at 92k) on a trip out of town and it costs me a bit of time and change to get it fixed. I'm going to order a rebuilt head and gasket set for my 94. I figure if it's apart I might as well do a little extra. Will replace the water pump as well. The timing belt has just under 20k on it but it's getting replaced. I'm getting a lot better at fixing 2nd gen "K" cars due to tons of practice. It's like my Ford Ranger. I like the vehicles but make no mistake, they are basic, CHEAP transportation and not "collector cars" like 70 Cuda's etc. That is why I drive them, because I'm cheap! I'm sorry for the diversion from the original topic, it's my ADD again.

Your problem is your head gasket= 99% certain. Turbo Shadow=100% certain.

P.S. replace your coolant temp sensor (mine was bad) and if you can afford it, your POS radiator. They are usually junk way before 100k if they were not well taken care of.

Get a Haynes manual at the auto parts store (not Chilton's)!

[mihulka3]

HEAD GASKET
Radiator shop will chemically test antifreeze for 25-35$

[mihulka3]

I understand you don't want to go where these threads are taking you!

[turbododgetko]

I've had a lot of blown head gaskets in my time and this definitely sounds like that is your problem. All of my head gasket failures resulted in no tell tale signs from the exhaust, but the overflow bottle would bubble over after a long highway run. The only other possibility I've come across (assuming your rad is in good shape) is severe air in the cooling system requiring pulling the plug on top the water box on the head and letting the cooling system fill to the point of overflowing where the plug goes in (when the engine is cold of course). The last thing I can think of is if your oil pressure is good. If it is not, you might be overheating due to extreme friction in the engine.

Hope this helps.
Mike

[1991shelby]

My 91 daytona was over heating also with bubbles in the coolent and also blowing my upper hose off. I thought I was pushing compression threw the head gasket. Lucky for me what was happening was the radiator cap was not letting coolent back into the res. tank. It created enough system pressure that after the thermostat opened a few times it would not open again and overheat. I replace the cap for a few bucks and have not had a problem since. Hopefully you have not overheated it to the point the head cracked. I would also suggest the coolant carbon check to make sure and replace your radiator cap with a good pressure relief one.

[IROCNOROLL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1991shelby My 91 daytona was over heating also with bubbles in the coolent and also blowing my upper hose off. I thought I was pushing compression threw the head gasket.

If there are bubbles in the coolant when the stat is basically closed engine hot, you probably still have a small compression leak

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Lucky for me what was happening was the radiator cap was not letting coolant back into the res. tank. It created enough system pressure that after the thermostat opened a few times it would not open again and overheat.

Thermostats are opened by temperature, not by pressure, and if it was pressure that opened it, because of the direction it opens if installed correctly, would be forced open by the pressure from the engine (heat source) side of the system

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I replace the cap for a few bucks and have not had a problem since. Hopefully you have not overheated it to the point the head cracked. I would also suggest the coolant carbon check to make sure and replace your radiator cap with a good pressure relief one.

Chances are that the new cap you installed is of a lower pressure than the previous cap, allowing the excess air to bleed off to the reservoir. You probably still have an issue. Also what is a coolant carbon check? If you mean a coolant system CO2 check, then yeah, I agree. This is a tool that is loaded with a chemical and then pushed into the rad neck with the engine hot, at idle. Presence of CO2 in the cooling system, a byproduct of the combustion process, causes a change in color in the chemical charge, indicating a compression leak. It may be a H/G, a cracked or pinholed block or head. You probably need to do a little more homework on your system too.

[1991shelby]

The thermostat openns with temp but that is just spring loaded. Enough pressure on the reverse side ie engine side will keep the spring from opening. If the radiator cap is not allowing the excess coolant to go to the res. then it will create excessive pressure in the system. My cap was a 16bl. cap and that is what I replaced it with. My friend who is a mechanic recieved a new way to check for cracked heads and blown head gaskets. It is pretty cool. All it is is a chemically treated piece of paper attached to a wood or plastic holder. You dip the paper in the coolant and it will change color if there is the tiniest amount carbon present. It is like a PH tester for a fish tank. Carbon will be pushed threw a blown head gasket or cracked head. My car had none.

[IROCNOROLL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1991shelby The thermostat openns with temp but that is just spring loaded. Enough pressure on the reverse side ie engine side will keep the spring from opening. If the radiator cap is not allowing the excess coolant to go to the res. then it will create excessive pressure in the system. My cap was a 16bl. cap and that is what I replaced it with. My friend who is a mechanic recieved a new way to check for cracked heads and blown head gaskets. It is pretty cool. All it is is a chemically treated piece of paper attached to a wood or plastic holder. You dip the paper in the coolant and it will change color if there is the tiniest amount carbon present. It is like a PH tester for a fish tank. Carbon will be pushed threw a blown head gasket or cracked head. My car had none.

1.) The spring side of the stat is the engine side dude. That is also the side of the system that produces the pressure via heat absorbed from the engine while it is running. When the stat opens the coolant flows into the rad and the temperature drops as the coolant is exposed to the airflow thru the rad. This cooling effect also reduces the system pressure. This repeating heating and cooling cycle is what actually controls the system pressure, not the cap alone.

2.) The cap's job is to maintain pressure on the system to raise the boiling point of the coolant from 212deg to maybe 230deg to prevent boil-off of the coolant or overheating. The overflow bottle is basically there so that in the event of an over pressure situation the coolant is captures and then returned to the cooling system when it cools down and creates a low pressure (vacuum) situation. The newer style caps are valved especially to allow this action. If you where a little older you would remember the days when the hose off the rad cap neck just ran down the side of the rad and the coolant was simply dropped on the ground and lost when the cap opened.

3.) The paper strip test you are referring to is probably a Ph strip to test for acidity in the coolant just like the strips for the fish tank, and not for testing for CO2 (the carbon you keep referring to). If you would PM me with a brand name and part number off the container, I would be glad to check it out for sure, and if it is a CO2 strip and not a PH strip, I would be happy to use and share this info as it would be faster than the chemical testing we currently use here. Always open to new technology, and usually abreast of the new stuff when it hits the street, and haven't seen a whisper about CO2 strips. Not saying they don't exist, just have no info on them.

4.) Back to point 1 - from what you wrote above, if you have the stat installed with the spring toward the top rad hose and the blank end pointed toward the engine then this will explain why your cap is peeing your coolant into the overflow tank all the time. You have your thermostat in backwards dude. Heat causes the spring to contract pulling the seal off its seat, and this is how the stat opens. Throw an old stat into a pan of water and throw it on the stove. Watch how the stat works and if you use a thermometer in the water you can actually see if the stat opened at the temperature it is stamped with.

[1991shelby]

I agree that his problem is prob. a head gasket or cracked head. I thought the same thing to the point I bought a new head and was going to port it, like I did when I built my 412hp 350CID for my corvette from a bare block up. Yes my thermostat is in correctly.

Let me explain in more detail what happened to me.
My Daytona started to overheat. I pulled over and checked my upper radiator hose ( I thought it blew off again). The hose was still on and the hose and radiator was cold. So I wanted to check the fluid level( Being cold = no pressure) so I loosed the cap. Coolant sprayed eveywhere. Even cold (for a moment) it was full of pressure. Well after I released the pressure the thermostat opened and hot coolant started to spray out after the cold. The next day I took it down and had the coolant checked for Yes carbon. It is a test that picks up the tiny particles of carbon from the combustion that would be pushed into the coolant during a a head gasket leak. I confirmed that it was for actual carbon particles not carbon dioxide or Ph. I will try to ask him name and place to buy this test for you and let you know. He recieved it from one of his vendors as a promo. My test showed no leak. I figured well my thermostat opened when the excessive pressure was realeased from the system (which was higher the 16lbs.) I might as well try a new radiator cap since my old one looked original (1991). I drive the car min. 50 miles to and from work a day. I am slightly overboosting to about 15.5psi. My upper radiator hose has not blown off again. The car has never even come close to over heating again even with the air conditioner on. It has been 7 month now. It only cost me About $6.
I am not saying this will fix his problem for sure but if he has the either find someone who has the carbon check or do the CO2 check and it comes up negitive. What do you have to loose but a few bucks and alot of work?

P.S. If I dont get back to you with the name and where to get the carbon check test kit feel free to remind me.

[IROCNOROLL]

Quote:

Let me explain in more detail what happened to me.My Daytona started to overheat. I pulled over and checked my upper radiator hose ( I thought it blew off again). The hose was still on and the hose and radiator was cold. So I wanted to check the fluid level( Being cold = no pressure) so I loosed the cap. Coolant sprayed eveywhere. Even cold (for a moment) it was full of pressure.

Classic signs of an air lock or a sticky stat. Try to squeeze the hose to feel for pressure, and not just temperature.

Quote:

Well after I released the pressure the thermostat opened and hot coolant started to spray out after the cold. The next day I took it down and had the coolant checked for Yes carbon. It is a test that picks up the tiny particles of carbon from the combustion that would be pushed into the coolant during a a head gasket leak. I confirmed that it was for actual carbon particles not carbon dioxide or Ph.

Have to stop doing this late at night. I keep writing CO2 for some reason but it is CO that we test for. A byproduct of combustion. Sorry dude. I think we are both actually on the same wavelength, but CO as a gas would be way more likely to show before actual carbon particulates.I would be extremely interested in what this new product is.

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I will try to ask him name and place to buy this test for you and let you know. He recieved it from one of his vendors as a promo. My test showed no leak. I figured well my thermostat opened when the excessive pressure was realeased from the system (which was higher the 16lbs.) I might as well try a new radiator cap since my old one looked original (1991). I drive the car min. 50 miles to and from work a day. I am slightly overboosting to about 15.5psi. My upper radiator hose has not blown off again. The car has never even come close to over heating again even with the air conditioner on. It has been 7 month now. It only cost me About $6.I am not saying this will fix his problem for sure but if he has the either find someone who has the carbon check or do the CO2 check and it comes up negitive. What do you have to loose but a few bucks and alot of work?P.S. If I dont get back to you with the name and where to get the carbon check test kit feel free to remind me.

There might be the possibility that there was an air lock from the refill when the hose had blown off the first time? Do you have the thermostat drilled to allow air to bleed past the thermostat? Air works as a great thermal insulator and if it is surrounding the back of the stat it insulates the stat from the heat and this keeps it from opening. This will let the temp crawl up above normal, and as long as the air is there the stat will not open. Then you shut the engine off. This will allow pressure to build in the whole system, back thru the pump and to the rad. This will exasperate the pressure up scenario. Popping the cap allowed the pressure on the two sides of the stat to balance and allowed the air to move away from the stat enough for the hot coolant to reach it, and it would pull open pretty fast at that point. Moot point now I know, but the diagnostic mind needs to know. The cap may have been a part of the issue you had, but an airlock of sorts was probably a contributing factor as well. Maybe?

[ozetranyman]

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Originally Posted by DustinSlaven89 Ok, as some of you may know, my 93 shadow has been overheating for quite some time, it does fine in city driving for about 20 minutes, then things get icky. Several people had ideas but none are plausible Thermostat-Impossible. Replaced, worked great for a couple days, now a new problem, or there is something wrong with the thermostat, I doubt there is any leaks cause I did it with my grandpa, who has been working on cars his entire life. 50/50 water and coolant improperly mixed - Impossible. I bought a jug of prestone 50/50 that is prediluted and they cautioned to not add water. Leak - Impossible. Reservoir is completely full after putting all the coolant in the radiator, so I have no loss of coolant. Does anyone know roughly how hot the engine is if the needle is between the "safe zone" and topping out at H? I bought a 180 degree thermostat, replaced the gasket, and put gasket sealer on BOTH sides. So today I was driving around, for about 15 minutes, I went home changed my clothes for work, went back out to my car and it wouldnt turn over, I had electricity, but it wouldnt start. So I took my moms car to work, got home and it started up right away. Since it was hot, what would have caused it to get SO HOT, that it wouldnt even start for me? When I put new coolant in and started it up to get the coolant circulating, There was smoke coming off a hose directly under the ignition coil going to the block. Why would that hose be smoking? 1. because it was hot and it was burning coolant that dripped on it? 2. something else? I am gonna try and give as much info as possible I think there might be a leak in my radiator, cause one day I was under the car, and noticed the radiator had a wetspot. There was coolant on the lip of the hole that bolts the alternator in, dont know why The copper coils inside my alternator usually have a weathered look to them, but today they were clean, it had rained, but no water got in the engine bay. Oh I know why, cause I put too much coolant in, and it drained out the over flow spill. Thats all I know of so far.

when your car starts up it runes rich on fuel arftere a little time it trys to run at correct (af) ratio air fuel so your sensors might be falty or sending the wrong signal to the computer and this could even come back to the chaging system or battery(if voltage wrong every thing cold be out)

[ozetranyman]

new to this site

[1991shelby]

Yes I think we both were wrong. I went threw the whole test and got a clear answer from him. The test he kept teling me was a carbon test is in fact a HC (hydrocarbon) test. HC's are tested in many states which has emission tests. It is a kit from Snap On. I think you are correct with the thinking of a combination problem with cap and an air lock. I do have my stat drilled with a 1/16th hole to avoid head shock now. The timiming of everything fits to an air lock.
Hopefully that isDustinSlaven89 problem?
Thanks

[IROCNOROLL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1991shelby Yes I think we both were wrong. I went threw the whole test and got a clear answer from him. The test he kept teling me was a carbon test is in fact a HC (hydrocarbon) test. HC's are tested