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Turbo Dodge Help Urgent help when something goes wrong with your Dodge and you can't figure out what the problem is. Troubleshooting help and the place to post when you're stuck with a broken car and have to get to work the next day.

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Old 03-15-2012, 05:37 PM   #31
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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Sorry for the delay.

Did the die test and it came back negative for exhaust gasses in the coolant. Not sure how accurate or reliable those things are.

been busy with work and moving into new house. Will perform leakdown test and see what happens when i can.

anything else i am missing here. Im just baffeled as this is the second car ive had that has done this. Except the omni that did it had a lot of heat out put.
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Old 03-15-2012, 06:42 PM   #32
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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The only reasons an engine will run cool are...
Thermostat missing, stuck open, incorrect heat range
Radiator replaced and too large
Cooling fan runs constantly, cooling fan replaced and too large

This will cause the engine too run cool as verified by checking CTS voltage.

If the issue is only the heat output is poor that is another issue that could be caused by...
All of the above issues
Heater control valve restricted
Heater hoses restricted/collapsed
Restricted heater core
Temp cable or blend door issue
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:36 PM   #33
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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Still overcooling. And its been 95* or warmer. gets warm driving slow in traffic. stop and go. but once i drive above 35 without stopping it cools right down and stays cool. Not sure what the hell is going on. Im gonna try another stat i guess. Hoping to get it fixed before winter otherwise im selling it as this is just my commuter car. gosh damn diesel is back over $4 a gallon so my truck sits a lot. at least it gets warm and has a heater that you could bake a turkey with. LOL
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:26 PM   #34
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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So I decided to install an old water temp gauge i had laying around. And it shows the car is at the proper operating temp. I installed it in the location of the original temp sensor. Now as the car heated up the gauge i installed showed operating temp. Once it got to 200, the factory temp gauge on the dash jumped to the middle which and showed correct operating temp. It got a little hotter so i unplugged the factory temp sensor which of course brought on the fans.

So my question is why did the gauge on the dash jump up to operating temp when the temp sensor wasnt even installed. Is there another sensor that sends the signal to the gauge other than the one by the thermostat.?
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:32 PM   #35
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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No, there is no other sender/sensor that sends engine temp info to the cluster.
If the gauge moved by itself there is probably a problem with the gauge or cluster circuit board.

FYI...2.2L/2.5L runs up to 212 degrees F before the cooling fan cycles on.
If you want to know TRUE engine temp baclprobe the Coolant Temp Sensor connector with a digital voltmeter and read the voltage.
Use the chart below to change voltage to temp.



BACKPROBING THE CTS.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:44 PM   #36
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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Thanks NAJ. I did back probe on the original diagnosis. I just couldnt figure out why the gauge wouldnt read properly. Like you said now the problem is probably with the gauge cluster. The RPM gauge is bouncing around too and you as you have said in a previous reply that was quite common. I will remove cluster and just re flow all solder joints.

Also the fan will not come on if the original temp sensor is not installed as it wouldnt know the temp correct? This sounds self explanatory but just want to confirm.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:53 PM   #37
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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The engine controller controls the cooling fan by grounding the relay.
The engine controller gets its info from the 2 wire CTS in the head by the thermostat.
The single wire sender in the head is only for the gauge and will not affect the engine or engine controls in any way.
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Old 01-16-2013, 08:59 PM   #38
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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So leaving the aftermarket gauge sender in place of the factory cts is a bad idea? Since the ecu would have no other way to know what the engine temp is.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:23 PM   #39
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenfly View Post
So I decided to install an old water temp gauge i had laying around. And it shows the car is at the proper operating temp. I installed it in the location of the original temp sensor. Now as the car heated up the gauge i installed showed operating temp. Once it got to 200, the factory temp gauge on the dash jumped to the middle which and showed correct operating temp. It got a little hotter so i unplugged the factory temp sensor which of course brought on the fans.

So my question is why did the gauge on the dash jump up to operating temp when the temp sensor wasnt even installed. Is there another sensor that sends the signal to the gauge other than the one by the thermostat.?
The gauge moved because the CTS by the thermostat does not send info to the gauge, it sends info to the computer. The other CTS that sends info to the gauge is a single wire sensor that's in the head right beside the #2 sparkplug.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:30 PM   #40
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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I (or you, or both of us) are confused.
There is a Coolant Temp Sensor and a Temperature Sending Unit.
The Coolant Temp Sensor(CTS) is a 2 wire sensor used by the engine controller for engine coolant temp info for fuel/spark advance/idle speed and cooling fan control.
The CTS has nothing to do with the temp gauge in the instrument cluster.
If there is a problem with the CTS circuit the Check Engine Lamp will be illuminated.

The Temperature Sending Unit is a single wire sender that controls the needle position on the temp gauge in the instrument cluster.
The temp sender has nothing to do with the engine control system and will not affect the way the car runs regardless of its condition or being plugged in or disconnected.
It will only affect the operation of the temp gauge on the cluster.

Coolant Temp Sensor(For Engine Controller)
More Information for AIRTEX / WELLS 5S1021

Temperature Sending Unit(For Gauge)
More Information for STANDARD MOTOR PRODUCTS TS176

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Old 01-16-2013, 09:41 PM   #41
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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OK. I got ya now. i was the confused one. I installed the aftermarket gauge in the location of the 2 wire CTS. not where the temperature sending unit is. Sorry for the confusion. So i will re install the CTS back where it belongs and the aftermarket gauge in the location of the stock sending unit, see what the reading is. If the aftermarket gauge reads proper operating temp then that would mean the temp sending unit is faulty? Thanks NAJ and DRAGBARON.
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Old 01-16-2013, 09:53 PM   #42
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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Just remember that the factory gauges are not accurate as far as a True Temp.
They are basically there to show a problem of either they hardly move(engine running too cold) or they read very high(overheating).
Generally anything in between is "normal"
Ever since my car was new and still to this day in winter the gauge never reads above 1/4 the way up(when cooling fan cycles on) and in the summer the gauge will read to 3/4 the way up(when the cooling fan cycles on) and according to CTS voltage and a Snap On Scanner engine temp is the same winter and summer, the only difference is where the gauge reads.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:00 PM   #43
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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Also, I'm doubting that your aftermarket temp gauge sending unit will fit where the single wire factory one is. You could try to remove the threaded plug that's on top of the thermostat housing and install you gauge there.
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:07 PM   #44
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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I don't have the plug on top. I'm gonna drill and tap it there though I think if it doesn't fit in the factory location. The aftermarket is 1/8" npt. Thanks for the help guys. I will update later.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:31 PM   #45
Re: Help!! Overcooling and minimal heat  
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Its not overcooling. Heat output is poor i assume because of fouled heater core. Gonna flush it again. Aftermarket gauge reads relatively close to the CTS. The factory port for the sender is 1/8" NPT. The CTS Port is 3/8"-18 npt. Thanks again guys.
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