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Old 10-27-2012, 07:38 AM   #1
Question 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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I know this has been asked a lot but I just can't figure this out, I have an 89 dodge daytona Shelby 2.5l, I installed a walbro 255lph fuel pump and new fuel filter, and new plugs and wires etc, I installed a new vacuum block and ran all new lines just like diagram shows on hood with all new thick rubber lines and vac blocks, the old ones all were broken and missing lines from previous owner, I've also checked waist gate actuator and solenoid, put air on actuator it engages and disengages freely no slop and is connected not stuck, solenoid tested and works like it should when power added to it,when running car driving down road it shows 15 to 18 vac, when I get on it I only get 5 pounds boost past 0 on gauge?, replaced boost gauge with new 1 still same?, unplug actuator it boosts past 14 to 16 pounds boost till car shuts off fuel and spark when giving it gas, so it's not my turbo. Any ideas how to fix this problem? Maybe put on a Mbc to fix this? Thanks Chris.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:12 AM   #2
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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Your vacuum is missing an orifice or your line is routed incorrectly. 2.5L routes its line to bleed when you're in boost. Set MBC would probably be easier for you.

89 2.5L

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo/turbo189.jpg
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:28 AM   #3
Question Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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YeA I got all the valves but am missing the orifice valve on boost gauge, and orifice line on throttle body, does thos to valves make that much a difference?
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:30 AM   #4
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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Do you have the orifice installed between the compressor housing and the wastegate actuator...?
Is it the original factory orifice...?

The actuator is NOT supposed to see full boost pressure, I think it's intended to operate in the 7 psi range. The way the factory "reduced" the pressure going to the actuator was to tap off the compressor housing at the small end of the "scroll" (not sure I'm using the right name for that) and by putting the orifice in there to reduce the volume of boost air getting to the actuator.

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does thos to valves make that much a difference?
Those will not effect boost pressure.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:39 AM   #5
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You mean the orifice from turbo into wastegate then line into wastegate solenoid, I don't know if I do or don't on that 1 I'll check it and let you know if it's missing that might be the problem thanks, also don't these cars normally run 12psi boost not 7 or 8 , or so I keep reading that on google sights all the time?
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:53 AM   #6
Question Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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Ok I just looked I do not have the orifice on the wastegate/turbo what size orifice do I need to get? Hopefully from oreillys, also the other 2 orifices I'm missing control vacuum correct if I'm not mistaken? Thanks for all your help btw on this problem it is appreciated.
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Old 10-27-2012, 08:55 AM   #7
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NonkeyMuts View Post
also don't these cars normally run 12psi boost not 7 or 8 ,
DDG- Turbocharging the Chrysler 2.5

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Boost was scheduled for 6.9 psi from 1800 rpm to 3400 rpm where it was slowly ramped up to 11 psi by 4400 rpm. By looking at the dyno chart this appears to be done to keep the engine below 180 ft/lbs of torque due to transmission limitations I would suspect, 1991 engines made 210 ft/lbs of torque at 2400 rpm. Fuel shut off was set at 6200 rpm due to fuel injector limitations after that point. Boost would also be dropped to 8 psi if at WOT for long period of time and engine rpm was over 3650 rpm.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:02 AM   #8
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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Ok so if I install a manual boost controller will I still need the orifice tube then or could I get away with not using it and say turn my boost up to 11 or 12psi
and lock it in safely?
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Boost was scheduled for 6.9 psi from 1800 rpm to 3400 rpm where it was slowly ramped up to 11 psi by 4400 rpm. By looking at the dyno chart this appears to be done to keep the engine below 180 ft/lbs of torque due to transmission limitations I would suspect, 1991 engines made 210 ft/lbs of torque at 2400 rpm. Fuel shut off was set at 6200 rpm due to fuel injector limitations after that point. Boost would also be dropped to 8 psi if at WOT for long period of time and engine rpm was over 3650 rpm.
Thanks for that info btw
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:13 AM   #10
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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If you use a MBC, you'll run the line from vacuum source, to mbc, and from mbc to wastegate actuator. MBC actually already have orifice built into them.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:30 AM   #11
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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Ok thanks again tryingbe and all others who posted solutions to my noobish questions on this subject that I know have been answered many many times before, I've been trying to figure this out for last 3 days but now know what's wrong, I have 1 last question for you tryingbe if you don't mind, so bassicaly I hook vacuum block to Mbc, then to wastegate actuator, and do away with line going to solenoid, and do away with line going to turbo outlet with orifice tube and leave it open, am I correct on that assumption?, then set it to 11psi?
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:33 AM   #12
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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You got it. Cap the lines that will give vacuum/boost leaks.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:40 AM   #13
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChargedDust View Post

The actuator is NOT supposed to see full boost pressure, I think it's intended to operate in the 7 psi range. The way the factory "reduced" the pressure going to the actuator was to tap off the compressor housing at the small end of the "scroll" (not sure I'm using the right name for that) and by putting the orifice in there to reduce the volume of boost air getting to the actuator.


The orifice isn't there to limit the amount of pressure the system see's. It's there to slow the volume of airflow down to allow the solenoid to be able to bleed enough air off to raise the boost.
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Old 10-27-2012, 09:42 AM   #14
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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By not having the orifice in the WG system line properly the solenoid can't bleed enough air off fast enough to raise boost. So being an 88 T1 system the car will be limited to 5psi because that's what the actuator opens at. The ECU is tuned to have a certain size and flow of the vacuum/boost line system. You go and change that and you have issues like this.

If you want to change the lines because they're broken and brittle that's cool. But you need to replace them with the like. http://www.automationdirect.com/adc/...bing_-a-_Hoses That place has factory size line in either nylon, which is what the factory stuff is) or polyurethane which will make turns sharper before kinking and last a lot longer but still won't balloon or suck shut under vac/boost like nylon. Since it's the same size you can use factory style connectors.
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Old 10-27-2012, 01:06 PM   #15
Re: 2.5l 89 Daytona vacuum line and boost help  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLHNSLHT2 View Post
It's there to slow the volume of airflow down to allow the solenoid to be able to bleed enough air off to raise the boost.
We mean the same thing, kinda just saying it in a different way.

If more air (volume/pressure) is going into the lines than the solenoid can bleed off then there will be constant pressure in the line (to varying degrees) and the actuator will open - and your boost will be limited to whatever pressure the actuator opens at.

By pumping in less air (volume/pressure than the actuator opens at) then the solenoid can either raise that pressure in the lines by staying closed, or reduce it by staying open.

The orifice works to reduce the volume (and correspondingly the pressure) to the range where the solenoid can effectively regulate it.

And you are correct, changing anything in the system, size of the lines, boost pressure setting, orifice, using a vacuum block ect - will all unbalance the system from the way it was balanced at the factory, so some changes will be required.
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