Will not start!

[NAJ]

First verify injector pulse, once that is verified ok...

Use a digital voltmeter to backprobe the connector and check Map and CTS output voltage.

CHECKING FUEL PRESSURE
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...-93-turbo.html

CHECKING MAP VOLTAGE
http://www.turbododge.com/forums/f4/...agnostics.html

CTS VOLTAGE CHART

[NAJ]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancerman23 list of mod's - are many, i dont know listing them all would help.. figure this out faster..

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancerman23 full forged bottome end, better tranny & clutch, cv joints.. walboro pump, head work, intake and exhaust mani port jobs ,bigger turbo, new rad, FMIC, on and on....

Cal?
3 Bar or 2 Bar Map?
Injector Size?

[lancerman23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NAJ Cal? 3 Bar or 2 Bar Map? Injector Size?

CAL- FWD stage 5
3bar map sensor
injectors are brand new +40's

also thank you naj so much for the list above.. that's gonna help emmensly

[lancerman23]

question and this maybe another dumb one..


NEVER MIND.

[Shel-Game]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancerman23 ok guys i feel i have exhausted all avenues trying to get my 87 shelby z tona to start... list of mod's - are many, i dont know listing them all would help.. figure this out faster.. only thing that is not on the car is the FMIC & piping.. got the timing set (covers and fan belts are all off so i can make sure it will at least idle) First- it wouldn't start becuase it was leaking fuel and i had hooked up the fuel lines backwards.. upon trying to correct the fuel lines.. the fuel inlet tube off my stock fuel rail BROKE , luckily i had a billet rail from one of our vendors sitting on the shelf. finally got time to install it, and it will still NOT FREAKING START.. wont even putter like it's catching! SPARK- YES FROM EVERY PLUG WIRE FUEL- I KNOW THE RAIL IS FINALLY GETTING PRESSURE! AND THERE'S NO LEAKS.. question is how to do i check to make sure all the connectors for the injectors are getting a signal? i had to sort-of re-route the injectors.. ie flip the connectors so there under neath the rail.. i hope i don't have to pull the rail again.. the rail is alluminum and so are the brakets.. could the brakets be causing a ground issue?? is it possible something is wrong with the injectors? there brand brand new.. i have a stock set i was going to throw in and see if that fixed it.. other than that i dont know what direction to go ? ... HELP PLEASE

1) For '87, there should be a ground wire from the injector harness that goes under one of the fuel rail bolts. Still have that?

2) Is the aluminum fuel rail anodized? The anodized portion of the aluminum does not conduct. So, you'll want to put the ground strap against the intake (IE, under the fuel rail bracket), and/or remove the anodizing where the ground strap is touching the rail.

[lancerman23]

this is the billet fuel rail from TU, he gives you new mounts and there aluminum also.. the ground strap for the injection harness is in it's stock location.. i am just not as certain that it grounds as good as the stock steal one.. it's hard to believe that nobody on here is running one that can verify for me..

2-it just bare aluminum not anodized.. im going to move/ lengthen the ground strap to the back side of the intake and see if that will help and a list of other things.

[onerippinturbo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lancerman23 this is the billet fuel rail from TU, he gives you new mounts and there aluminum also.. the ground strap for the injection harness is in it's stock location.. i am just not as certain that it grounds as good as the stock steal one.. it's hard to believe that nobody on here is running one that can verify for me.. 2-it just bare aluminum not anodized.. im going to move/ lengthen the ground strap to the back side of the intake and see if that will help and a list of other things.

it being plain aluminum will ground just fine really. there are some things that noone can verify for you, some things require you to perform your own checks and make determiations based off those checks since it's your car and we cant be where you are. remember, the intake is aluminum as well, so if you think it wasnt grounding correctly on the fuel rail, how's it going to on the intake? either place should supply a fine ground, just make sure it's hooked up and clean and tight.

[GhostDaytona]

Have u checked the starter relay, an the starter solenoid???

[lancerman23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by onerippinturbo2 it being plain aluminum will ground just fine really. there are some things that noone can verify for you, some things require you to perform your own checks and make determiations based off those checks since it's your car and we cant be where you are. remember, the intake is aluminum as well, so if you think it wasnt grounding correctly on the fuel rail, how's it going to on the intake? either place should supply a fine ground, just make sure it's hooked up and clean and tight.

ya sorry my last post probably didn't make sense.. i know these test's i gotta do my self, i was just looking for someone else who was runing the same rail that there's was working fine ie meaning that aluminum was a good ground ... and i forgot the 2 piece intake mani's were aluminum also.. so ya it should be grounding fine if the stock injectors worked with the ground being in the same place... i got a list of test's im doin tonight. .

[lancerman23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostDaytona Have u checked the starter relay, an the starter solenoid???

there isn't an issue with the starter not turning over.. like i posted earlier.. she'll crank fine..just no fuel.

[Sid]

Injectors are electromagnets. They have a (+) connector and a (-) connector. The computer sends the electricity to the injectors and unless things have changed, injectors get 12 volts. If there is no ground at the injector level, they do nothing. Try checking your injector harness for continuity. Disconnect one of the injector connectors and with your ohmmeter on continuity setting, touch the injector ground side and with the other, where your harness ground is bolted to. It should beep and do the same to the Neg plug on the Harness Connector itself. Unless the color of the wires changed, and there are extra connectors for something else, the injector connectors have a green and a white wire.

A very simple way to test the ground once and for all is to take your Injector Harness ground where it is bolted to the manifold and using a set of jumper wires, connect one end to the NEGATIVE side of the Battery and the other end to the Eyelet (I said jumper wires because they are easy, you can if you want take another wire with an eyelet and with a small bolt, bolt the eyelets together and then take and connect the other end to the Neg Bat Terminal) Just make sure you connect to NEGATIVE side of battery. That Definitely grounds it!!! You can't get a better ground than that. Now crank the engine and see if it fires up (going as you have said numerous times that there is definitely fuel/fuel pressure in the rail). If it does, you know you definitely have a ground problem and need to correct that. If it doesn't, then the problem is with the power side of the connector/computer and you can test the injectors through the harness, so, disconnect your harness connector, to see if they click by finding on your Harness Connector which are the (+) and then touching them with a wire that comes from the (+) side of the battery. Leaving the temporary ground as it is. If it clicks, reground your harness to the manifold as it was originally and try again. If it clicks, the ground was not an issue and the problem is with the computer or the (+) wires that come from the computer. If I am not mistaken, the 87 was a LM? 88 was SMEC.

[lancerman23]

SID ^ that was very indepth! thank you!! that gives me more to test off of.. i'll do that and repost tonight ..


thanks again.. you also recommended maybe taking the rail off and seeing if the injectors fire? but i dont think there's any way for me to hold the injectors in place while the rail if pressurizing at 45-50 psi... is there? im pressure sure they'll just pop right off..

[Sid]

Hi, No need to take off the rail. Just the injector harness connector.

That is to test to see if the injectors click but the first step is to do the definite ground to the injector harness.
With the injector harness ground wire connected to the battery negative, you know it is definitely grounded, you crank up your car. (you can also run a wire from the battery negative and loosen the ground eyelet bolt, slide it under the eyelet and tighten it down. This will definitely ground not only the injector harness but the entire manifold itself) If it starts, you know it is a ground issue and you will need to add a few more grounds. (Mine has the steel braided ground strap from the intake manifold to the firewall. I put another from the battery negative to the inner fender and a third on the right engine mount from one of the bolts over to the engine bracket). But if when you crank it up, the engine does not fire, then you disconnect your harness connector that you see in the pic. You then run a wire from the positive battery terminal so you can just touch the Positive terminals in the harness connector which go directly to the injector. You should hear a click as you touch the injector Positive terminals one by one. You can touch the injector that is clicking and you will be able to feel the magnet click on and off as you touch the terminal tip. If they click, it means they work. If they do not click, the injector harness has a ground problem inside somewhere that needs to be found or replace the harness. Now, is when you remove the negative wire from the battery negative to see if they work with the way it was originally grounded. Touch them again one by one to see if they click. If they also click that tells you that your grounds definitely are OK and the problem is then with the computer or, wires from the computer to the connector.
When my son's car had this problem, the one in the pic, it gave no codes. It fired with ether or gasoline put into the intake manifold, drove us nuts. We did each of these steps and it ended up being the ground, reason for all the extra grounds on the car but, a neighbor/friend who had the same problem a few years later, was not so lucky and went the next step which is to check for continuity from the injector harness connector to the computer connector... All the injector wires had continuity, in other words, they were good. His ended up being the SMEC.

[NAJ]

Apparently I am the only one that owns one of these..., had it since 1988.
Great deal on OTC Tools 3398 at ToolTopia.com


If you want to verify a good ground check continuity to ground from the rail, strap, firewall to - battery with your digital ohmmeter, no more than 5 ohms.

You can do the same with all controller grounds.

[lancerman23]

Naj & sid thank you so much for the great info!

naj that tool looks awsome.. better save up for one!!! i need to get one