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which engine and tranny for cheap drag project

2K views 25 replies 8 participants last post by  jamierpm 
#1 ·
if you had your choice which engine and tranny would you use for a cheap drag car project, turbo dodge of course and fwd as well, if you only wanted to spend a few grand which would you choose, 2.2, 2.5 or 2.4? obviously I think an auto would be faster at the track than a stick but just looking for some other input, I'm about to buy a TD but trying to decide on which one, srt neon is a little out of the question but a turbo pt isn't but I would rather have a late 80's TD, thanks for reading.
 
#2 ·
2.2 is a better rev'r
2.5 more low end torque
Automatic yes, faster shifts
2.2 w/ 2.0DOHC off an Neon (Hybrid), also an option but lots of special tricks and build effort required as well as custom calibration and engine management.

A stage 5 cal with a 2.2, +40 injectors, AFPR and large FMIC and even the stock Garrett T2 at 20+psi is a pretty darn good strip car. Add some meth or NO2 and getting traction will probably be your first issue to adjust for. LOL
 
#3 ·
thanks for taking the time to give me your opinion, I've only had 2.5 auto's in the past so I wasn't sure what the difference between 2.2 and 2.5 were other than just the displacement. I'm thinking of buying a 86 laser 2.2 with a stick from a member on here, I've never staged a manual car but do you think this car having a manual would be a deal breaker or is there not much difference there? also would you write off a turbo pt vs. an older 2.2 for this type of a project, I don't know much about the 2.4 and modifying them but I do like how simple the older td's are to work with and I do have a bit of experience with them, thanks Brandon
 
#4 ·
Early cars basically had an Omni transmission, too weak for any kind of racing.

1987 and newer had much stronger units.

1987-89 Daytona T-II had the strongest trans and are readily available, but heavy for a 2.2, still very good.

T-II cars are great donor for L bodys, best parts, lightest body.

Possible ideal drag car:

1988-89 Omni/Horizon Automatic

with a

1989 2.5 Turbo minivan Automatic donor.

The minivan engine wiring harness plugs into the 1988/89 Omni body.

2.5 with a larger turbo to start

and

Durable automatic that works with the 88/89 L body Automatic axles.

or

T-II powertrain in any L body, need 88/89 Automatic L body axles, modify T-II wiring harness to fit L body.

2.2 is great with a light car, 2.5 is great for a heavier car.

1988-89 wiring harness with SMEC preferred due to great parts availability, T-I or T-II. 1990 and up SBEC is fine but much more scarce computer wise.

Rampage is a great L body platform too!!

Best bet is to buy a completed car that serves your needs, even if you pay twice what its worth, it will still probably save time and $$ !!

Too bad you weren't closer, I have a partially completed Omni drag car and a 1989 Turbo Minivan for the powertrain and wiring, and a DC Rampage, crying out for a Turbo!!

Thanks
Randy
 
#5 ·
wow thanks Randy that's some great information there, sounds like an 88-89 2.5 should be the simpler way to go than swapping engines, tranny's and wiring harnesses, not that I don't want to but that will give me some ideas for the future, thanks for you input.
 
#6 ·
To clarify, all Turbo engines in 1988 were 2.2, both T-1 and T -II

1989 was the first year for 2.5 Turbo.

Approx. 97% of T-II 's were Daytonas, all with 5 speeds.

1988-89 shared the same style electronics, SMEC.

A big part of your decision might be whats available in your area.

Thanks
Randy
 
#7 ·
yeah, seems like slim pickins around here, I found a 89 spirit auto but the guy must not want to sell it to bad, do you happen to know how much more a spirit would weigh over a Daytona? I know about 10 years ago TD's were all over but seems to be harder to locate these days, thank for your help.
 
#13 ·
There's nothing wrong with the SBEC, its just they are far more scarce.

SMECs are far more common and interchange between 1988-89 and cover 2.2 T-I, 2.2 T-II and 2.5 T-I so they cover most popular engines.

Turbo cars pretty well died out for 1990, so although they are fine, spare SBECS are harder to find and much more expensive and cover a different range of engines, VNT, T-III and 2.5 T-I, no regular 2.2's

Thanks
Randy
 
#14 ·
The turbos began to lose out in favor of the V6 in '90 and newer cars. Most turbo SBECs are going to be 2.5 TI.

And the 568 is better in some ways to the 555 and not in others. Depends on how you look at it. But the shifter configuration was generally thought to be better due to improved shift actuation and gear engagement. The gears are basically the same. There are 2 different 568s. The 1990 unit has a small input shaft and shares clutch options with the 555. The 1991 and newer units have a large input shaft and use the TIII clutch. You can use either trans with any 2.2 or 2.5 as long as you have the right clutch kit and flywheel setup. It's generally easier to find the 555 due to there being more of them produced, and they're fairly long-lived units.

Personal preference from 2 decades of playing with turbo Mopars, if you end up with a heavier car like a Daytona or a LeBaron, build a 2.5. In an L body, 2.2 or 2.5 is fine. An '89 2.5 common block is going to be easier to find and maybe a little cheaper to build. Maybe...
 
#16 ·
I know you said drag racing, so are you thinking of gutting it to make a bracket car or say a legal NHRA B/FStock type of deal like Shelgames Daytona.

Don't mean to bash those cars but 1988-89 is still the best starting point.
You could run a 2.2 T-I or T-II or a 2.5 Turbo just changing the SMEC.

Certainly there are cals but its nice to always start with a stock combination to establish a baseline.

Thanks
Randy
 
#17 ·
I guess I should have been more clear with my intentions, I plan on stripping it down mostly besides the front 2 seats and dash and playing around at the local ihra track just bracket racing, I would be happy to be in the 12 second group, I know that's not super fast but I was never able to get any of my past td's out of the high 13's, but also would like to be able to take it back and forth to work in the summer months, thanks for all your input Randy, you've been a ton of help already making me realize why I love this forum and this community of people so much, Brandon
 
#19 ·
That's what most do, although I have great respect for NHRA class racers.
Bracket racing is about consistency anyway so the E.T. isn't that important.

What were your previous T-D's, just curious??

Thanks
Randy
 
#18 ·
i'm going with a 2.4l and a 2001 neon trans ..
2.4's breath well --- srt4 pistons and rods are cheap.. & srt4's make 400hp easy in stock config (pt turbo short blocks can be found for $100 around here)

ecu is a challenge, aem, megasquirt or add a distributor and chip to run the stock ecu..

3200 rpm torque convert with torrington (sp) can be had from NAN for ~$200, and a red alto clutch upgrade kit is roughly $200

if its drag only.. weld the diff.. i'm going with the obx and still need to build/source a spacer
 
#20 ·
I had a 89 turbo minivan, 89 lebaron and a 84 charger, the lebaron was the fastest of the 3, I put a intercooler, dsm bov, boost controller, extra injector, squished the fpr, opened the exhaust and put a zener diode in and ran around 18 pounds of boost for quite some time, then one day my controller malfunctioned and I hit 25+ pounds of boost and burnt a hole in a piston, I repaired it and got it running again but never pushed it as hard after that, I was on this forum quite alot but that was 12 or more years ago, all and all for what I'm after do you think the 90 daytona would be a decent decision? or should I hold out for an 88-89? I'm getting the itch for some boost again. thanks Brandon.
 
#21 ·
Personally I would hold out for a SMEC car, I don't want to sound like a broken record, many of us have lots of spare SMECS but SBECS are like hens teeth!!

Member electrical diagnostician guru Naj has a 1990 Daytona that he used to bracket race, totally stock if I remember correctly, would probably disagree !!

Again, nothing wrong with a SBEC its just my opinion based on used parts availability.

I have several Turbo vehicles, all SMEC, so diagnosing is just another part away if necessary.

Naj could diagnose a problem with a meter faster than I could try another part!!

I like to experiment, others not so much.

Thanks
Randy
 
#23 ·
ok so as far as controlling the engine and all that there's not much difference between smec and sbec? the only issue would be finding a replacement sbec if the one I have fails? is computer failure on these cars a common issue? also is there any difference in tuning these computers for more performance? I really don't plan on having a bunch of td's just want a decent one that performs well, thanks Brandon
 
#24 ·
Failures are not common no. But it can happen. 25 year old electronics that are exposed to heat, moisture, and the rigors of hard driving can fail regardless of how well they are made. Honestly though, if you want to get into the 12 second group you'll want to get a proper cal'd computer or get a flashable one and roll your own tuning. Then you'll have some vendor support to back you up and at least a new cal chip. There is very little difference in the potential of the 2 computer designs. They perform the same functions, just one has 2 boards in the case and the other has 1 board in the case. Tuning will be basically the same.

SBECs are more rare, but not impossible to find. There have been a few members parting out 90-91 cars recently. And it wouldn't be that hard to swap the electronics over to SMEC if you decide to go with the '90 Daytona. All the important stuff is under the hood already and a couple of wiring diagrams will take you the rest of the way.

Honestly, as far as cars are concerned, the Daytona will be easier to start with as it sits. The GTS is a fine car and a great handler, but it has a log turbo setup that really has to go if you want to be fast and consistent. Plus, you're dealing with the older electronics with split PM and LM. Nothing wrong with them per se, they're just older and not as refined. The log manifold makes intercooling difficult at best and the efficiency is awful. Plus, it's a little harder to find body/interior replacement parts for the GTS as they weren't as plentiful as the Daytonas. You're gutting it anyways, so that may not matter to you.

The '90 Daytona with 2.5 will be a common block, 1-piece intake, Mitsu turbo car. The Mitsu turbo is awful for racing (and pretty much everything on a 2.5). You'd want to at least get a Garrett on there before you go knocking on 12's door. But, adding an intercooler is as easy as bolting it in. Really, there's lots more potential in the motor for less initial input. For drag racing, either car would be fine. Once you strip them down, the weight difference will be minor.
 
#25 ·
thanks evilcowroland for the straight up info, I was thinking the 90 would be better all around but nice to hear some of the finer details, with any luck the car will still be available this weekend and maybe I'll pick it up, the Daytona is in realy good shape and all stock and the guys asking 1600, I think that's a fair price for a daily driver car. as far as my budget goes it should fit the bill nicely, who's the best people to calibrate the computers for these cars, my last td projects I kinda just did the hillbilly mods but for this one I's rather go about it in a more technical manner, thanks Brandon.
 
#26 ·
I have a shelgame chip in my 87 tona, we had an issue the first time around with the 3 bar map he sold me and the cal was off a little bit, he sent me an other map sensor and new chip with updated calibration for free, great service and would recommend you give him a try
 
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