Engine runs, then stalls then does not start

[jeniik]

Hi there

I'm new here so be patient please ;-)

I was trying to find an answer here at the forum and on allpar as well but that did not help. My friends Chrysler ES Turbo 2.5 is running fine, tries to stall when braking, then stalls finally and does not start. Let it rest for a while and it will fire as new.

When it goes it misfires when the maximum boost is reached.

Have codes 12 and 61.

Changed the pickup, measured the coil (2 ohms on primary, everything else fine), disconnected the map - it changed the idle revs, checked the connectors here and there, everything seemed fine.

Any clues?

Any "kick" in the right direction will be highly appreciated ;-)

Sorry for my english, greets from central Europe.

[jeniik]

Spark is missing, fuel goes (probably, can be smelled from the exhaust...)

[NAJ]

Need a little more info.
What year?
Code 61 on 89/90 is Baro Read Solenoid Open or Shorted Condition Detected.
That should not affect Spark but will Definitly affect Fuel.
If you are smelling Fuel make sure the Plugs are not Fuel Fouled and that the Oil is not Fuel Diluted as this will create driveability problems even after original problem is corrected.You may want to unplug the Fuel Pump at the tank while performing diagnostics so you do not continue Flooding the engine.
Connect a test light to + Batt and - Coil, crank engine, if the light flashes the problem is not Primary Ign.If the light stays on steady there is no trigger signal,common problem is Hall Effect Pickup connector terminals or connector being loose. If there is no light then connect Test Light to - Batt and + Coil and check for power while cranking, if there is PWR on the + side but not on the - side you have a faulty coil.
Coil Wire from Coil to Distributor is also a High Failure item.

[jeniik]

Thanks for info, I'll try that.

It's a 89 2.5 Turbo MFI (some kind of an european version which should not matter anyway...)

More info: The baro solenoid is dead, but I tried tu unplug the wires and the hose going into it and the engine did not stall.

There is no power at the + on the coil when the ignition is on. It blips and then falls down.

We were trying to bypass the power to the coil - that started the fuel pump, but the engine was dead anyway (so that tells me, that the ASD is OK).

The hall effect sensor is new and what's more - the ECU would tell us about its failure in the code 11 would'nt it?

We're going to change the oil, filter, timing belt and some more things after fixing this problem so there should be no problem. Will check the sparks anyway...

[NAJ]

When you turn the key to the on position when starting the Controller reads Barometric Pressure and updates that info thru the Baro Read Solenoid under certain conditions while driving,this info is used for Fuel Control.MAP is Dominant Fuel Control and the Controller compares Manifold Pressure to Atmospheric Pressure to determine Injector Pusle Width.
If Baro Info is incorrect Fuel Control will be off the entire operating range, If the light is on the vehicle is running on a fixed failure program mode.
I would start by repairing the Baro problem.

[jeniik]

Yes, the baro will be replaced (I have to wait for the parts that are flown from US) but afaik the engine should start and run even if the baro is completely out of order...

So that leads me to the conclusion that there is still some other problem :-(

I just hope that it is not the kind of a "slightly damaged wire deep under the dashboard that sometimes grounds itself and stops the engine" which would take years to find...

[BrassMonkey]

i had a similar problem, altho, i put a fuel pressure tester on and kinda knew what it was and didnt feel like fixing it. the fuel pump. when i opened it up the negative to the pump was loose. it was all black and burned up and the insulation was melted off about an inch back. that made my car run similar to yours.

[jeniik]

The fuel pump is ok but thanks for info anyway.

[jeniik]

No new ideas? I'll be happy for even the stupid ones, those not-so-common, the crazy, just any ideas...

Is there any common ground problem (except near the fuel line)?

What about the electronic things that can stop the spark?

coil
pickup
distributor
ECU

anything missing here?

there is no power on the coil so that should be in the bloody electronic. Is that right?

ANY help and ANY idea would be highly appreciated.

Thanks in advance ;-)

[NAJ]

What Year is the Vehicle?

[jeniik]

1989 Turbo MFI 2.5 in Chrysler ES...

[NAJ]

You say no power at coil,Primary?Secondary?
Hold Coil Wire 1/4' from ground and crank engine,should be strong "Blue" spark.Yellow or erratic = No Spark.
Power to the + side of coil is from the ASD Relay,With a Test light connected to a good ground and + side of coil test light should light when cranking engine.The Power Feed Wire from the ASD is DG/BK and Feeds the Coil,Injectors,Fuel Pump and HO2.The Power Feed to the Coil Splices into that wire in the Underhood Harness and becomes Grey and runs to Coil +.
If there is Power at the + side connect Test Light to + Batt and - Coil,Crank Engine,Test Lamp should flash on and off,if Lamp does not light then replace Ign. Coil,If light is on and does not flash there is no trigger,check HEP and Connector Terminals for pushed out pins,damage or corrision.Also check connector at SMEC.
Power to the HEP is 8 volt output from SMEC Term#1 at the 14 pin conn(ORANGE Wire),this wire also supplies 8 volts to the injector sync side of the HEP.
The Distributor Pickup Signal at HEP is a GRAY wire and runs to SMEC Term # 47 in the 60 pin conn

[jeniik]

thanx for info, we tried to bypass the ASD and that started the fuel pump and everything. The ASD relay itself is OK, so that leads me that there is another problem before the ASD.

Will check the wires...

[NAJ]

ASD Relay;
Control Side,SMEC Controlled.
Power InK BL Wire from SMEC Term #12 of 60 Pin Conn.
Ground SideASD Relay Control) DB/YL Wire from SMEC Term # 58 to Diag.Conn.,Wire Splits and runs to ASD Relay

Power Side;
Power In: From WHT Fuseable Link to Red ASD Wire
Power OutG/BK Wire to Coil, Injectors, Fuel Pump,HO2 Sensor

[NAJ]

Power in should read Dark Blue on Control side.
Power Out on Power side should read Dark Green/Black
Don't know how the "Smily's" got there.