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Engine - General, Exhaust & Induction Topics about the general engine items, exhaust system discussed here & Improving the intake tract - air filter to intake valve.

 
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post #1 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 12:31 PM Thread Starter
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Singh grooves - What do you think?

I found this on the web SOMENDER-SINGH.com - Forbidden Fruit

Supposedly gets better gas mileage and drop in EGT's with these grooves and a decrease in detonation. Anyone on the TD page try this?
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post #2 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 12:33 PM
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sounds like you need to try it and let us all know how it works
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post #3 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 12:52 PM
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I did my head; see

SOMENDER-SINGH.com - 2005 The year in (grooved) pictures

scroll down 2/3 way; 3 pics below the red 'drag strip' nova, this pic looks pretty similar to a 2.2/2.5 SOHC 'swirl' head, and is pretty much exactly what I did on mine

it's hard to quantify exactly what gains the grooves made cuz I did a lot of changes at once ; however, my EGTs do seem low (max of 1200 in #1 with 8 bars A/F) but there are other variables like probe placement etc which may cause that

my omni is a strong runner with 14.0@103 at <13 psi (Gtech) ; and it really doesnt have any radical mods- its mostly all stock parts which I have massaged ; so - its quite possible these groovz have contributed to my strong running combo

go ahead and run them ; 10 minutes with a Dremel ! :)

[my car: lightened 2125# 86 omni, 86 TI short block, 88 1-piece TII mani, A413; ported&coated exh mani, turbo turb. housing, 2.5" SV; ported turbo comp. housing; 2.5" DP -> 3" mandrel, no cat or muff; PT lifters, 3.3 conical springs, 36.8mm exh valves; light port on head, smoothed edges on CC, powergroovz; port matched head to manis; Gvalve at 12-13psi; CAI with K&N cone]
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post #4 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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I found another page from a turbo daytona guy. Read on....Scott's 88 Turbo II Daytona Shelby Z

He did the groves....
http://www.sheenconsulting.com/car/pics/SpareHead2JPG

Right now I'm having heat issues EGT's 1650. I'd love to cut grind a couple groves in my head and see the results but I don't want to do it to a $600 head.
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post #5 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 01:47 PM
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talk to MPG Mike, i have a head he did with those, but my car runs super rich due to his pwre lynz
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post #6 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 02:07 PM
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Murph, that just means you can lean it out and get more power and better economy.

I've been using the grooves on heads for about the last year and a half. There are many members using a Powre Haus head with at least one groove carved in the squish pad. I know that Dez was running up to 24# boost with 93 octane before needing to add H2O injection. At 27# boost he was making 430 HP according to one of those accelerometers.

Mike
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post #7 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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How many grooves need to be cut? One down the middle? or should you add grooves for the intake and exhaust valves?
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post #8 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 04:16 PM
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Ya I know what i got to do, I just need to tear it down again from wiping my crosshatchings clean. I think i need to run a stock head, get my WBo2 hooked up, learn to tune, THEN I can swap to your head. that way im not dumping tons of fuel in the engine while im trying to break it in AND i can tune it right off as soon as its in.

my head has 1goove per cylinder
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post #9 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cawcislo
I found another page from a turbo daytona guy. Read on....Scott's 88 Turbo II Daytona Shelby Z

He did the groves....
http://www.sheenconsulting.com/car/pics/SpareHead2JPG

Right now I'm having heat issues EGT's 1650. I'd love to cut grind a couple groves in my head and see the results but I don't want to do it to a $600 head.
Those are mine. I did those with MPGMike's and Automotivebreaths input.
Looking at them now, I think I could of gone closer to the edge. My EGT probe died. Can not really remeber what the EGTs were exactly, but they were lower than what most report. Rember that much. 13-1400ish.

You should check out turbobricks.com. They have a couple of good threads on grooves and turbos. TM has a thread in the 16v conversion that has some con type comments. Just to see both sides.

Talking to Automotivebreath recently, he suggested 4 grooves angled to the exhaust. Very much like one of his other pics posted somewhere that has 3 grooves.

Scott Sheen
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post #10 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 09:02 PM
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There was a dyno chart between 1, 3, 5 grooves and 3 performed the best. Also I am thinking about doing this, I was going to do it with a triangular needle file, but most people have been using a dremel. Could someone give me some instruction on the best way to do it? Also mike, some guy on mpgresearch mentioned doing something close to your powre lynz by cutting the lines with a dremel, what would be the best way to do this(other than buying the tool). Don't worry about sharing some secrets, I plan to buy a ported, grooved, lyned head from you sometime.
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post #11 of 12 Old 09-04-2007, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scott_s
Those are mine. I did those with MPGMike's and Automotivebreaths input.
Looking at them now, I think I could of gone closer to the edge. My EGT probe died. Can not really remeber what the EGTs were exactly, but they were lower than what most report. Rember that much. 13-1400ish.

You should check out turbobricks.com. They have a couple of good threads on grooves and turbos. TM has a thread in the 16v conversion that has some con type comments. Just to see both sides.

Talking to Automotivebreath recently, he suggested 4 grooves angled to the exhaust. Very much like one of his other pics posted somewhere that has 3 grooves.

Have any pictures of the 3 grooves? "I think I could have gone closer to the edge" - I'm assuming you're referring to cutting your grove close to the edge where the headgasket mates to the head surface?

You're running 13-1400 egt's currently - how much boost?
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post #12 of 12 Old 09-05-2007, 10:13 AM
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I have not found the 3 groove picture yet.

Yes, closer to the edge of the cylinder wall.

Currently the EGT is offline so I do not know what they are. Those numbers are what I remembered. At that time 12ish. On the note of EGTs, with this head, I also changed the valves (see the pic), the exhaust mani to a bigger log style, and the turbo to S70. The cal and fuel pressure stayed the same. I did change my fuel to 87 octane as well. I am not saying this to say see what it can do, but to point other changes where done that will have some effect on things.

Not to mention the head before this (from MPGMike) had a MAX of EGTs of 950F, so these EGTs on this header are higher. Lots of differences in the heads, different exhaust mani and hence probe location, cyroing, etc.

Scott Sheen
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