Lifter Stuck??

[pooty]

The engine is a T2 with a cylinder head from a 2.5 (same head with turbo valves). I replaced all of the valve train, in this head, with parts from FWDP (regrind cam, followers and lifters) and put 7,000 trouble free miles on the car. One morning, after the car had sat for a few weeks, I started the car and ONE lifter was extremely loud. It got quieter after running for a while, but to make a long story short . It eventually got worse....so I removed the VC and found ONE lifter that was stuck into the head (for a lack of better words). It was extremely difficult to remove and came out in pieces. Once removed, I cleaned the lifter hole and didn't see any defects. Even after dropping in the new lifter, it didn't slide in and out freely. I tried scrapping the hole (carefully) and finally just dropped the new lifter in and drove the car for another 3,000 trouble free miles. Now I'm hearing valve train noise again I noticed when I had it apart that the lifter would sprin freely until I pushed it all the way down (past the little ridge in the bottom of the hole). Has anyone seen this before? Is the hole machined wrong? I'm wondering if installing PT lifters with washers would help as the washers would raise the lifter above that little snug ridge at the bottom. Sorry for the long post. Thank you, in advance, for you advice.

[Fiver ShelbyZ]

This car sounds familiar Sorry I dont have advice because it happens to be mine :P

[pooty]

Stop thread crapping

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiver ShelbyZ This car sounds familiar Sorry I dont have advice because it happens to be mine :P

[The Pope]

I think the one lifter got plugged and went south, and then too the lifter bore with it. This can push the lifter to one side and bleed oil. But if the top half is sloppy your toast, the PTs won't live either and you'll be doing mechanical lifters or a new head. Did you vac the block when you changed the head? A big hunk of crap laying on the restrictor can cause an issue. You could have a hunk jammed in the head too. Consider running the engine a little with the lifter and follower removed from the one hole for a minute. Then the oil pressure will blow through there and maybe clear the oil path. It'll run horrid but should blow out the crud. Then consider PT lifters. PTs also do need the amount of oil the stockers do, they are stronger and don't bleed down. So if it is oil starving that causes it the PTs could help, the same way they help autocross people.

But the situation is not looking good though for the lifter galley, it may be toast. The PT lifter washers press into the bottom of the lifter bore and don't work as well un seated. However the hole not being round at the bottom doesn't matter to a PT, the lower .2" can be hammered and the lifter body doesn't touch with a PT.

[pooty]

Well I had a chance to remove the VC last night and found that the lifter that I was referring to is fine. The bad news: Two other lifters have done the same thing......"wedged themselves into the lifter bore". I will remove them tonight. The strange thing is that they are all exhaust side lifters. Started with cylinder 2 which is repaired and still functioning and now
cylinders 3 and 4.

My observations: The cam and followers looked good and were coated with fresh oil. The lifters that do come out easy ( 6 of them) look great and are covered in oil (center section of the lifter had a good coating of fresh oil). There is no sloppiness in the lifter bore....top to bottom. It's just tight near the machined ridge in the bottom.

Prior to installing the head, we pressure washed the head after soaking it in parts cleaner and blew the galleries out with compressed air before assembling with lube.

Background prior to the problems:

This actually started after parking the car for the winter.....snow/salt + shelby z = pile of rust We would actually start the car through-out the winter, to lube the engine internals, and that's when it started. Also, we had an I-shaft destroy itself this spring. We dropped the plan, replaced the I-shaft and oil pump and thoroughly cleaned the engine.

I think I'll clean and inspect the bores and install the PT lifter and go from there. We didn't remove all of the lifters the first time around so it's possible that the others also had crap in them and died later.

I appreciate all of the information you provided and your advice. It all makes sense. Oh, and I found one of your old threads with part numbers so I placed my order with Fasteners.....Thank you. Sorry, I grew impatient. My cost on the lifters from Mopar was $46.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope I think the one lifter got plugged and went south, and then too the lifter bore with it. This can push the lifter to one side and bleed oil. But if the top half is sloppy your toast, the PTs won't live either and you'll be doing mechanical lifters or a new head. Did you vac the block when you changed the head? A big hunk of crap laying on the restrictor can cause an issue. You could have a hunk jammed in the head too. Consider running the engine a little with the lifter and follower removed from the one hole for a minute. Then the oil pressure will blow through there and maybe clear the oil path. It'll run horrid but should blow out the crud. Then consider PT lifters. PTs also do need the amount of oil the stockers do, they are stronger and don't bleed down. So if it is oil starving that causes it the PTs could help, the same way they help autocross people. But the situation is not looking good though for the lifter galley, it may be toast. The PT lifter washers press into the bottom of the lifter bore and don't work as well un seated. However the hole not being round at the bottom doesn't matter to a PT, the lower .2" can be hammered and the lifter body doesn't touch with a PT.

[pooty]

One more question: Will both washers sit beneath the ridge in the bore? Otherwise, wouldn't you need two different sized washers (one for beneath the ridge and the other for above). Thanks!

[The Pope]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooty One more question: Will both washers sit beneath the ridge in the bore? Otherwise, wouldn't you need two different sized washers (one for beneath the ridge and the other for above). Thanks!

The washer diameter is only a given size for the bottom washer. The top washer floats, which is fine.

You didn't use assembly lube on your lifters did you? Crud gets into them and can cause havic

[pooty]

Good to know! Yes, I used the red permatex assembly lube (the semi-runny stuff) I suppose soaking them in engine oil instead would be better for the initial start-up (I thought of that afterward when the lifter didn't pump-up right away) . What other illeffects does assembly lube have on lifters?

I'm thinking that pieces of the I-shaft made their way to the head. I was told yesterday, from an 80's dodge mechanic, that only 30-40% of your engine oil is filtered, and the rest is bypassed. If that is the case, it makes sense why pieces of the I-shaft are up there. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope The washer diameter is only a given size for the bottom washer. The top washer floats, which is fine. You didn't use assembly lube on your lifters did you? Crud gets into them and can cause havic

[The Pope]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pooty Good to know! Yes, I used the red permatex assembly lube (the semi-runny stuff) I suppose soaking them in engine oil instead would be better for the initial start-up (I thought of that afterward when the lifter didn't pump-up right away) . What other illeffects does assembly lube have on lifters? I'm thinking that pieces of the I-shaft made their way to the head. I was told yesterday, from an 80's dodge mechanic, that only 30-40% of your engine oil is filtered, and the rest is bypassed. If that is the case, it makes sense why pieces of the I-shaft are up there. Thanks!

The oil is by passed if you ue a filter with a bypass like a Fram. I only use Wix which don't have this, then it all gets filtered.

But I believe the mechanic is not talking about the filter, which would be scary if he is working on your car. If so he actually believes that an oil pump pressure bypass goes past the oil filter and into the engine. Thats complete BS All oil pumps have a bypass, but that bypass's the same way a wastegate works. The oil pump hits the pressure wanted by the spring and kicks lose oil and bypass's the oil pump. The same way the wastegate bypass's exhaust to the turbo bleeding off the extra pressure. But the exhaust still goes down the tail pipe...

ALL oil going into the engine MUST pass through the oil filter on ALL Mopars since the 30's. As the real old ones used dippers and no filter. Chrysler was the first automaker to build a car with a pressized oil system. When the Airflow was built no other car in the world had an oil pump.

Assembly lube starves the lifters for oil. They don't pump up and they get bashed. The same way stock lifters die, the reason I came up with a PT mod. In your case you plugged them right away, as the were getting pounded into the lifter bore they mauled the bore. You may need to use the PTs because of the damage, the stock lifters may not seat right now. Be sure to clean the bores and make sure they are just filled with oil.

A local guy here lubed the axles into his 555 with graphite grease and broke the case of the trans into 3 large pieces. Never put that crap where it shouldn't go , it can get really ugly fast