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Engine - General, Exhaust & Induction Topics about the general engine items, exhaust system discussed here & Improving the intake tract - air filter to intake valve.

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Old 05-11-2010, 08:20 PM   #1
industrial 413 turbo  
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Ok I am putting an 1971 industrial 413 in my 94 dodge ram 1500 with a 1ton suspension and 373 rearend. I have a turbo off of a 6.5 chevy diesel that will work great on the bottom end for to boost my torque with a large wastegate. My problem is that I want to run the 8psi the turbo put out from the factory, but I have factory pistons. Other than the pistons the motor is a tank with a steel crank and a bottom end known to be good to around 800 horsepower without modifications. It has a 7.5 to 1 compression ratio with the waterpump mounted to the heads and block pushing the cool water from the radiator into the heads. It also has sodium filled exhaust valves and I am going to sand down the hotspots in the heads to reduce the chance of detonation. Also this block used the same casting as the 426 and can be bored up to a 440 (.120 over) but I dont want to do that because I want the extra meat. but I cant find forged pistons for the 413 or 426. I am also building a homemade refrigerated water/methanol injection system for towing up long steep grades. My question is am I stuck with only 4 to 5psi or can I run the full 8psi reliably. the motor puts out 450lb/ft of torque at 2000rpms with 8psi it should be one mean pullin truck at any altitude. Also so far turbo, engine, tranny and truck I have only $500 in the project. So if I could use factory pistons that would be wonderful.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:40 PM   #2
Re: industrial 413 turbo  
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I know this is mostly a 4banger site but any help would be great. I also dont want to kill the fuel economy any worse than it already is.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:41 PM   #3
Re: industrial 413 turbo  
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sorry 3.73 rearend
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:17 PM   #4
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8 psi isnt much, i have delt with alot of bb mopars, none turboed, but they are very stout. give it a try and let us know.
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Old 05-11-2010, 10:36 PM   #5
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I would lose the sodium filled valves and go with some stock stainless steel ones. Sodium likes to go bang with put with air...
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Old 05-11-2010, 11:39 PM   #6
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Run a blow through super charger 600 holley carb and a MSD boost retard and buy a wideband to watch it. Set up the front jets for 14:1 AF around town and 11.5-12:1 AF under boost with the rear and the power valve. Run an intercooler or run E85. If it pings on a load slowly turn the timing back till it stops.

The 413 is a 60,000 lb GVW engine stock because of cooling, it is more than strong enough to run 10 PSI with that little choking turbo. Run 2 of them and things will change. But 1 of them is restrictive and will limit power. Be sure to buy a wide LSA cam for it, no big over lap carb cams. 114 LSA center line cams. Personally I would buy an early Holset, a H1C with a 18cm rear housing off Ebay, $50. Then rebuild it and add the 60mm compressor mod for $225. Then run a 60mm wastegate with it. I wouldn't run some VNT type turbo on it like many run.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:33 PM   #7
Re: industrial 413 turbo  
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will the holset h1c allow for about 8psi at 1500rpms I want full boost at low rpms so I can send my torque through the roof. 10psi would be nice. What is a wideband to monitor? I am new to the turbo scene but have read hugh macinnes' book many times on turbocharging and know that some company used to make a turbo kit for this engine and it is definately good for a turbo. The engine makes peak torque at 2000 to 2400rpms. I know the 6.5 turbo is a bit small for this engine but I am after that low rpm torque and am not looking at going above 3500rpms. Also I had someone I was working with that owned a 6.5 and got a compressor upgrade to a 62mm (I think) so that was why I was leaning towards it (plus a family friend owns a junk yard and gave me the turbo) this is a junkyard build. If the H1C would be better though at low rpms that would be good. I know this is not a high hp engine but I am looking for a very high torque low rpm reliable engine. I am still not sure where my max boost would come in with this setup though. Also with the msd system do I still have to worry about the factory voltage regulator and that other crap or does it take the place of the whole factory ignition system I have never owned one. thanks for all the input it is much appreciated, and sorry about my choppy typing I think faster than I type.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:36 PM   #8
Re: industrial 413 turbo  
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and I was planning on a blow through setup mostly because it being a diesel turbo I didn't want the vacuum from the carb to drain the oil out from the compressor. I also don't feel like moving the carb.
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Old 05-16-2010, 01:11 PM   #9
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ok I have been doing my homework on the different turbos and was thinking about an hx35 with th 18cm^2 housing and the 60mm upgrade. Does anyone know who produces a good quality large wastegate that is adjustable from inside the cab. I once knew a guy that had this on his dodge stealth rt but am having trouble finding one. Also someone threw away my water pump for this engine so the project is on hold untill I can find one. Acording to NAPA this engine doesn't exist even though everyone there knew about it. I cant even find the identical pump that fits the 361 (my engines little brother in displacement not size). So once again I thank you all for your help and look forward to joing the ranks with my turbo dodge when this project is complete.
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Old 05-16-2010, 01:13 PM   #10
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oh and also are cambell enterprises' intercoolers any good they seemed more helpful than Turbonetics and their spearco intercoolers.
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:11 PM   #11
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go to 440source.com for big block mopar parts. The heads and the water pump on your engine are industrial and don't flow that hot and won't like RPM. Then the water pump is super heavy even though it works.

$900 a pair assembled


$100, water pump housing and water pump. The water pump is a real pump, not some wagon wheel POS. I build swimming pools for living, this pump is actually made to pump water.


$225, the best available intake boost or not for any B engine (350-400)


frozenboost.com/ check these guys out on IC parts and BOVs.

Any 60mm wastegate will hold the engine at boost as they are plenty big enough. I would consider an electronic boost controller from a ricer mag for in car boost control. It will also let you have a soft boost climb for more traction.
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Old 05-16-2010, 09:32 PM   #12
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I use CP pistons in my 440, pricey but they were originally designed for boosted applications (formula one). Your motor will thank you for 8 lbs of boost if you have an intercooler. Use the biggest oil pan you can fit and tap the block for a 1/2" oil pick up tube.
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Old 05-17-2010, 08:10 AM   #13
Re: industrial 413 turbo  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by watrousmark View Post
I use CP pistons in my 440, pricey but they were originally designed for boosted applications (formula one). Your motor will thank you for 8 lbs of boost if you have an intercooler. Use the biggest oil pan you can fit and tap the block for a 1/2" oil pick up tube.
8 PSI is nothing and industrial engines normally come with forged pistons stock for detonation reasons. The 361 is a 50,000 lb GVW gas engine.... No 440 was ever built to move the weight the 361 and 413 were made to, as there a medium class truck engine. All boost isn't the same. My GLHS makes more power at 6 PSI than is did at 16 PSI. This engine with 1 smaller Holset turbo isn't going to make industrial breaking power by a long shot unless the engine is already toast.
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Old 05-17-2010, 06:26 PM   #14
Re: industrial 413 turbo  
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if you are looking for and oil pan and have the room i would go with a boat oil pan, i have one from a 426 wedge motor in my garage, weighs a ton but is huge. i would guess it at like 9 quarts, its the same sump depth but the whole lenght of the pan, not just where the pickup goes. might be able to get you some pics if you want me too.
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Old 05-17-2010, 09:28 PM   #15
Re: industrial 413 turbo  
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I was going to just fab my own oil pan to the specs I was after once I get my measurement with the engine in the truck, thanks though. I was wanting to keep the factory heads because of the better cooling this is going to be a towing/homegrown toy when finished (in other words built like a tank for my specific application). I do a lot of pulling with my fifth wheel all across the country from job to job on the pipeline and I need the truck off-road as well so I want it to be as reliable as possible. Lets face it the trucks they build these days are not that reliable. Could I keep it as cool and reliable with aluminum heads and the water pump you were talking about Pope. I am not so worried about rpms mostly going for torque and reliability. So that is why the cooling is very important. I may have to go to the aluminum heads anyways someone cleaned up around my engine and threw away my water pump and accessory brackets. I can make new brackets but cant find the water pump housing anywhere. Thanks everyone your input is much appreciated.
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