Turbo support brackets and down pipe pics

[Reaper1]

A VERY smart person once said that RPM's stands for "Ruins People's Motors", this coming from a guy that built Pro Stock stuff, NASCAR stuff, and is well known in the Honda camp. Hardly areas where people want to skimp.

If you can make the power at lower rpm's it's better for the endinge because you're putting less stress on it overall. I see nothing wrong with making good power at lower rpms than what some popek think is needed for a "race" engine. I see no point in revving over 7,000 or so with one of our engines, especially an 8V. A 16V can take a bit more, but again, it's not really needed. Warren has designed a system that works, ranging from the engine, the gearing, suspension, ect. If he mucks wioth one thing he's going to have to go through a whole bunch of other stuff. Why? It works. It works well. I say it's fine and there's no reason to mess with success. I'd do a bit of math before a made an intake, just to be sure, but from what I remember, what Warren has is d@mn near on the money. Just because something works for one thing, doesn't mean it's the all round way to go....

[2.2=8]

As I said previously, There is a reason for everything I do on the car/engine. THE biggest factor is MONEY!!, and High rpm costs big money!....If money was no object I would have used a lightend forged crank,filled block with billet four bolt main caps, ported 16 valve head,ect,ect......but I decided way back that if I was going to pour that much money into a car it would be rear wheel drive V8.....I'm already way over my budget......Had I put this much time and effort into a tube chassis v8 I would be running in the 7s.
As for the intake, When I designed the setup I did consult all the available info I could find and when I did the math I came up with a runner length of 13.7 inches from the valve seat to the stack inlet rim. (1.5 inches shorter than the factory two piece)That is the length I tuned to for the air an 8valve can typicaly flow @ aprox. 6500rpm. I think I nailed it because the engine has a very wide power band for a 2.2 Also, The engine will pull to 7000rpm but I rarely rev it that high because I DONT like broken parts!! (see my comment about not blowing shit up) It goes back to the rpm vs money thing. Finally, I cannot think of one other 2.2 that has run in the tens except for Stephane. All the other ten second turbo Dodges that I am aware of (and there are only a handfull) are 2.5s or 2.4s in smaller cars or with nitrous......SO I think I will just keep making my odd mods ......... Thank you for your constructive critique......Warren

[DakotaKid]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.2=8 Finally, I cannot think of one other 2.2 that has run in the tens except for Stephane. All the other ten second turbo Dodges that I am aware of (and there are only a handfull) are 2.5s or 2.4s in smaller cars or with nitrous......SO I think I will just keep making my odd mods ......... Thank you for your constructive critique......Warren

I am on my way...I hope.

-Bryan

[Shadow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.2=8 As I said previously, There is a reason for everything I do on the car/engine. THE biggest factor is MONEY!!, and High rpm costs big money!....If money was no object I would have used a lightend forged crank,filled block with billet four bolt main caps, ported 16 valve head,ect,ect......but I decided way back that if I was going to pour that much money into a car it would be rear wheel drive V8.....I'm already way over my budget......Had I put this much time and effort into a tube chassis v8 I would be running in the 7s. As for the intake, When I designed the setup I did consult all the available info I could find and when I did the math I came up with a runner length of 13.7 inches from the valve seat to the stack inlet rim. (1.5 inches shorter than the factory two piece)That is the length I tuned to for the air an 8valve can typicaly flow @ aprox. 6500rpm. I think I nailed it because the engine has a very wide power band for a 2.2 Also, The engine will pull to 7000rpm but I rarely rev it that high because I DONT like broken parts!! (see my comment about not blowing shit up) It goes back to the rpm vs money thing. Finally, I cannot think of one other 2.2 that has run in the tens except for Stephane. All the other ten second turbo Dodges that I am aware of (and there are only a handfull) are 2.5s or 2.4s in smaller cars or with nitrous......SO I think I will just keep making my odd mods ......... Thank you for your constructive critique......Warren

The most mind bogling thing I've seen since I logged on to the net, ppl who think they know, and have proven nothing, criticizing ppl who do know, and have proven it, time and time again! See you in the tens my friend!

[DirectConnection]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.2=8 As I said previously, There is a reason for everything I do on the car/engine. THE biggest factor is MONEY!!, and High rpm costs big money!....If money was no object I would have used a lightend forged crank,filled block with billet four bolt main caps, ported 16 valve head,ect,ect......but I decided way back that if I was going to pour that much money into a car it would be rear wheel drive V8.....I'm already way over my budget......Had I put this much time and effort into a tube chassis v8 I would be running in the 7s. As for the intake, When I designed the setup I did consult all the available info I could find and when I did the math I came up with a runner length of 13.7 inches from the valve seat to the stack inlet rim. (1.5 inches shorter than the factory two piece)That is the length I tuned to for the air an 8valve can typicaly flow @ aprox. 6500rpm. I think I nailed it because the engine has a very wide power band for a 2.2 Also, The engine will pull to 7000rpm but I rarely rev it that high because I DONT like broken parts!! (see my comment about not blowing shit up) It goes back to the rpm vs money thing. Finally, I cannot think of one other 2.2 that has run in the tens except for Stephane. All the other ten second turbo Dodges that I am aware of (and there are only a handfull) are 2.5s or 2.4s in smaller cars or with nitrous......SO I think I will just keep making my odd mods ......... Thank you for your constructive critique......Warren

Good response, Warren. Some people just don't get it.... "let's tune this thing for 8,000 rpms" yet with a stock rotating assembly and moderate cylinder head work, it ain't gonna make power up there. "If you can't beat 'em (ie: make power above 6,500 rpms) then join 'em" (tune for the powercurve you are saddled with )

[2.2=8]

I honestly didn't take anything Rob said as an insult, and I DO listen to almost anyones opinion and ideas. Accually he is right about the shorter intake runners (for a better flowing head) and I seriously considered building a shorter version to test, but I changed my mind for the reasons mentioned in my last post. I have no idea what he has built or how fast it goes so I cannot form a opinion on that subject..............seems every board has their resident experts, some real and some not??? I'm not one of them........O ya.....X is the unknown factor and SPERT is a drip under pressure

[DirectConnection]

If I were to change my rotating geometries... like for instance, different 2.2 pistons and longer rod (similar to the smp T-III) and had the head flow some serious air (well over 200cfm) combined with a nice solid cam w/out hydralic lifters, then I'd definately shoot for short runners as RPMs do = HP if planned out correctly. I mean, most 2.2's will pull to 7k, but not make any power up there without proper hardware to support it. I used to shift my car at 5,800-6,200 rpms. I later found out that it actually ran better shifting at 5,500-ish rpms.

So... all in all... I think your setup is matched very well.


BTW, I showed a guy at work the pics of your header and this thread as well. I work at a shop that builds race engines now btw. He has a 540-something KB Hemi running 42psi on a 14-71 and alcohol in his mud buggy. He was VERY impressed with your header to say the least. Awesome work, man.

[Brian Putman]

Warren, your setup is just awesome!!! And an 8V can breath good in the upper R's. but how good I'm not sure yet. On my combo I hit the same mph (89+ mph @ 22psi on street tires & still tuning) by either shifting into 3rd gear @ 6400, or by running it out in 2nd gear to 7000+ rpm (1/8th). Shifting before 6400rpm is simply short shifting my engine. I may play with shortening the runners on the 2 piece intake, as I only run a highly ported stock runner length one now. But Iam sure Warren has done his math.

[Shadow]

I prob typed that too fast and made it sound a little more harsh than I meant it to be. Just seems to me than when someone is moving forward with a project, and they have a proven track record, unless you have proven experience to the contrary, you would be far better to watch, listen and learn. I could tell you about 5 different manifold designs that I might think would work better for different reasons, but why would I. You've come up with something unique, and one only has to look at what you've already done to see you obviously have a firm grip on what it takes to make these mtrs go! That in itself is enough to tweek my curiousity and I'm intriged to see how it all works out! Guess I really haven't gotten over when I first got on here and found out Stephan was willing to share practicly everything he knew, and all it seemed ppl wanted to do was argue or disscuss how it should, or could be done better. The builder of the worlds fastest 2.2 turbo Dodge is telling you something and your not ALL EARS! Worse yet, your going to tell him what is or isn't going to work? This is not to say that I don't respect the right for everyone to have thier own opinion, I do. I just think you should concider the source before the first thing you do is try to tell someone how they should be doing it better. Anyway, didn't want to jack your thread, sorry for the novel and I hope I'm not offending anyone because that is not my intention. Can hardly wait to see how it is all going to work for you, good luck and keep up those crazy mods!

[Andre Parker]

I can say from experience that a shorter runner, big plenum is good for mid and top end hp on a 16v head. It "could" help on our 8v cars with a good ported head as it would let the motor make more hp and less bottom end torque. I'd be willing to bet if warren bolted up the stock upper part of the plenum, his hp would drop and his torque would go through the roof. I am impressed as hell with his set up. It's well thought out. He could make it a bit shorter, and he would lose some bottom end and then have to spin it higher to make up the difference. I think he has it set up perfect for what an 8v head can do.

[2.2=8]

Note to self: Fab up short runner/large plenum IR manifold, test at track..........Ok its on my list.
By the way, not to change the subject but have any of you ever had a turbo that leaked oil from the turbine seal ring while at idle hot?
Ive had my turbo off and on and disassembled three times last night and today!!!
If the header isn't good for anything other than easy turbo removal then it was worth the effort.......I can remove the turbo in ten minutes, I love it!

[Darkapollo]

I have a buddy with quads on his honda engine. The thing was a crapshoot to tune because there was just NO vaccumm for partial throttle tuning. This being a race engine shouldnt much matter if there is partial throttle or not. However, if someone was ambicious enough to try and copy this design for street to strip use then what you have designed is the best of both worlds.

Leaking oil? are you pulling any vaccumm through the intake scroll? I have seen cases of this where the seals leak because they are not designed to hold vac.

[itoktoeatfish]

pretty scary, this picture is exacty what I had drawn. http://www.turbododge.com/forums/att...5&d=1150778684
Only I had the TB right at the inlet, but from the sounds of it, it wouldnt be very streetable

[Reaper1]

I've had similar ideas, but I don't know how to seal it, especially with the plenum screws looking like they go through the plenum area...Warren, any chance you could explain that?

[Stef]

Great fabrication work! It reminds me of a turbo Lotus Esprit intake...