Hybrid - Is T3 57 trim too big, and must it have a T3 stage 3 trim turbine??

[jbarlow]

Is a 57 trim T4 compressor housing and wheel too big for a 2.5L with 5 speed??

Does this T4/T3 hybrid set-up mandate having a stage 2 or 3 turbine T3 wheel (inside a .63 housing)??

I am guessing that this would be a dog on the street, but OK for a light weight race only car.

Anyone who has run the set-up please comment.
I am looking for some first hand feedback.

Regards
Jeremy

[jbarlow]

Correction

The title and body should have read...

"Is T4 57 trim to big, and must a T3 stage 2 or 3 turbine wheel be used (with 0.63 turbine housing)??

Regards
Jeremy

[scott]

57trim is really big and not needed for a daily driver imo...if you're looking for a hybrid look towards the 50, super 50 or super 46 trim hybrids w/ a stage II wheel....but you'll be better off spending your money elsewhere to start (nice intercooler/exhaust) then replace the turbo and port the exhaust manifold while its out. good luck.

Scott

[Shelby VNT]

Please tell me what the 'Super' means. What makes it any different the usual 50, 46, or whatever trim?

[scott]

check out the compressor maps:

46 Trim:
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~sdean...046%20trim.bmp

Super 46:
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~sdean...046%20trim.bmp

50 Trim:
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~sdean...050%20trim.bmp

Super 50:
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~sdean...050%20trim.bmp

54 Trim:
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~sdean...054%20trim.bmp

Super 54:
http://www-unix.oit.umass.edu/~sdean...054%20trim.bmp


sorry some of the maps are small

Scott

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally posted by Shelby VNT Please tell me what the 'Super' means. What makes it any different the usual 50, 46, or whatever trim?

The "Super" designation means the wheel has a larger major diameter with the same inducer size. Technically, this changes the actual trim designation (since trim is calculated based on dimensions), but Turbonetics ignores that

As as example in the TO4E 50 trim:

The "regular" 50 trim uses a 2.122" inducer with a 3.000" major diameter.

The "super" 50 trim uses the same 2.122" inducer diameter with a 3.200" major diameter.

Since the inducer is what determines maximum flow rate, both wheels are rated at 47 lb/min (about 450-475 hp) maximum. The advanatge to the "super" wheels is the larger major diameter moves more air at a lower rpm (i.e it should spool faster). I was skeptical of this at first as I though that the larger inertia of the larger major diameter wheel would more than overcome the ability to move more air at a lower rpm and thus cancel the faster spool up potential. I cant say for sure if the "super" spools any faster than the "regular" wheel, but on my R/T, the TO4E "super" 50 trim / Stage 3 / 0.63 turbo comes on alot sooner than I thought it would.

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally posted by 4sfed4 The "Super" designation means the wheel has a larger major diameter with the same inducer size. Technically, this changes the actual trim designation (since trim is calculated based on dimensions), but Turbonetics ignores that As as example in the TO4E 50 trim: The "regular" 50 trim uses a 2.122" inducer with a 3.000" major diameter. The "super" 50 trim uses the same 2.122" inducer diameter with a 3.200" major diameter.

Formula for calculating compressor trim:

trim = (inducer diameter)^2 / (exducer diameter)^2 x 100

Thus, for the "regular" 50 trim:

trim = (2.122^2) / (3.000^2) x 100 = 50.03 = 50 trim

For the so called "super" 50 trim:

trim = (2.122^2) / (3.200^2) x 100 = 43.97 = in reality a 44 trim

[Shelby VNT]

Wow Larry, thanks for the information! So it looks like I should be looking at a Super 50 actually. Cool, learn something new everyday.

[jbarlow]

Quote:

57trim is really big and not needed for a daily driver

Thanks for the feed back!

I was presented with a good buy, but following the feed back I've recieved, and other good advice, I'm going to pass up the offer, and stick with my 60 trim T3 instead.
I'll probably be happer on the street with that.

I had considered keeping that for a race only 2.5 Omni project, but it may even be too much for that!?!

Jeremy

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally posted by Shelby VNT Wow Larry, thanks for the information! So it looks like I should be looking at a Super 50 actually. Cool, learn something new everyday.

No prob. Id highly recommend the Super 50 trim. Anyone I know that has used it has been quite pleased. Its a very good match to our engines and can flow enough air for 99.999% (in reality probably 100%) of the Turbo Dodges out there.

[boostaholic]

how does the super 50 compare to the super 60?

[4sfed4]

Quote:

Originally posted by boostaholic how does the super 50 compare to the super 60?

There are a couple of "Super 60" wheels.

The one you are probably referring to is the common T3 "Super 60" trim compressor. This is much smaller than the TO4E "Super 50 trim" wheel.

There is also a TO4E "Super 60" trim wheel as well. Its a relatively huge wheel and probably not a good match to most TDs.