porting turbin housing

[DirectConnection]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotza boost I'm not trying to steal this thread but I can tell you if you gasket port match a two piece T2 manifold without spending countless hours on a flow bench you'll end up with an expensive piece of junk(the bulb effect doesn't only apply to this application either!). This also applies to several other parts on other makes as well. Pope, not every person that has a die grinder and a few cutters knows how to remove only what is needed. As for gaskets making the ports more equal, thats fine for the most part as long you don't mind overlooking the fact that most (refering to intakes, heads and exhaust systems) gaskets tend to show you that it is OK to remove material from the port floors...how is that making power??? I would give up port matching factory parts (as long as the block and heads are not milled and decked too much) in favor of what I could do to the bowl area any time... I was only trying to offer this person some info that was not already offered by someone else. I also believe that in my 30 plus years of machining, engineering and building race engines, transmissions, rear ends and suspensions I have almost always found bigger restrictions and or mis-matched parts or completely screwed tune ups that needs to be addressed long before port matching, porting or polishing your heads needed to ever be addressed. Lebaronguy2001, I am not telling you that you are doing is wrong at all...I'm only giving you a heads up and something to think about while you are working your car over. The majority of people do not have REALLY FAST cars because it isn't that easy to do right and I refuse to do it wrong just because everybody else does. I don't know everything...but I do know what I am saying to you is correct. Good luck on your car and I hope you will find something good of all this.

Every word you wrote I TOTALLY agree!

Gasket matching has shown me how much gains on my flowbench? 0-CFM!

It isn't theory, it is fact that when air expands anywheres, there's a flow loss. This applies to when the air exits the valve into the combustion chamber, and also when it goes from a runner, to the manifold. Gasket matching in these areas may actually show negative results. Making your manifold's gasket areas bell-mouthed because you opened up the runner to the gasket is a big no-no.

Working under the valve seat is the #1 area of flow loss on a stock head. I agree with the pope here, but a cutter that just so happens to wipe out this area hap-hazzardly doesn't make it correct, either. There must be attention to a certain amount of taper, and diameter of the throat *in relation to the valve diameter* in order for it to truly benefit. I've lost alot of flow going too big under the seat on a stock valved G-head.

[The Pope]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirectConnection Every word you wrote I TOTALLY agree! Gasket matching has shown me how much gains on my flowbench? 0-CFM! It isn't theory, it is fact that when air expands anywheres, there's a flow loss. This applies to when the air exits the valve into the combustion chamber, and also when it goes from a runner, to the manifold. Gasket matching in these areas may actually show negative results. Making your manifold's gasket areas bell-mouthed because you opened up the runner to the gasket is a big no-no. Working under the valve seat is the #1 area of flow loss on a stock head. I agree with the pope here, but a cutter that just so happens to wipe out this area hap-hazzardly doesn't make it correct, either. There must be attention to a certain amount of taper, and diameter of the throat *in relation to the valve diameter* in order for it to truly benefit. I've lost alot of flow going too big under the seat on a stock valved G-head.

gasket matching doesn't make the port hugely larger than an intake port, it helps if the intake doesn't match the head well. On the exhaust many use a ported mainfold at least and having a port half the size makes for the same problem you describe on the intake port. Bell the intake port? Yeah that sucks, I go in atleast an inch. Going to big under the seat, the cutters go in straight down, can't go bigger, they just hit air, then they tamper at the end toward to guide. Big thing a cutter does, and it goes with the bigger bowl than seat problem, is that the cutter gives you absolute max seat diameter. This means you can gain as much as posible from having a stock bowl thats too big already.

[lotza boost]

832 horsepower in a 3880 pound car...with a set of heads built by a kid at (I presume) his high school autoshop!?!? I will almost buy the 10.2 transmission in a HEAVIER than normal car story.....nah.
I would be your biggest fan if you could please oh please just give me a few more facts about this engine/trans and car combo, or the dyno sheets that will let me see where the peak hp/tq are at and the fuel flow numbers!!! I can't begine to fathom how you could have done this...but I would be glad to learn from you if you would let me.
I am not wanting to know any secret specs or anything like that, just a good dyno pull, fuel flow numbers and a better description of the cars setup for the 10.2 pass.
I will be a truely impressed and loyal fan of yours for life.
I can only hope that you still have access to them or have mot lost or misplaced them...

[The Pope]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotza boost 832 horsepower in a 3880 pound car...with a set of heads built by a kid at (I presume) his high school autoshop!?!? I will almost buy the 10.2 transmission in a HEAVIER than normal car story.....nah. I would be your biggest fan if you could please oh please just give me a few more facts about this engine/trans and car combo, or the dyno sheets that will let me see where the peak hp/tq are at and the fuel flow numbers!!! I can't begine to fathom how you could have done this...but I would be glad to learn from you if you would let me. I am not wanting to know any secret specs or anything like that, just a good dyno pull, fuel flow numbers and a better description of the cars setup for the 10.2 pass. I will be a truely impressed and loyal fan of yours for life. I can only hope that you still have access to them or have mot lost or misplaced them...

550 WHP, 710 ft lbs at the tires, staceys auto tune and tire dyno
69 440 mag, stock crank and rods. quench dome KB pistons, stock windage tray.
69, 906 heads. stock steel valves, double springs (one dampener), fully reshaped and ported and polished.
Holley strip dominator intake
Demon vac secondary 850
MP ignition kit, Accel super coil, 8mm wires
2" X 42" tube headers, duel 3" exhaust W/ H pipe and SS ultra flow mufflers
MP SS shocks (rear) with MP SS springs. Competion Engineering 90/10 front shocks, 318 torsion bars (.86"), 1" Addco sway bar
10x28 drag radials, 4.30 8.75 cone 489 rear end, race axles, MP frame connectors.
stock all steel body, uncut or changed, flat steel 68 formula S hood, dual snorkel air cleaner w/K&N. Battery in the trunk.
Custom leather interior, "tuck and role" front buckets, rear seat and leather tuck door panels, sound deading added
MP 284 484 "412" cam with 76 degrees overlap, stock valve train. Stock rad and clutching fan, power steering.
Cheater NOS system, smallest jets they have for 130 shot
pope built 727, 4 pinion welded planetarys, 5 clutch drums, cheeta MVB, 10" 3,400 RPM stall converter, still no role cage and the old man is going to die if it goes over! Drives 72 miles from Usk to race it, drives back 72 miles to go home, has never been on a trailer

This years new engine I built.

69 440, eagle H beam rods, Ross 10.5 light weight pistons, comp 288R roller street cam, com 3/8" hardend push rods, triple springs, fully ported Edelbrock aluminum heads, ARP bolts everywhere, stock windage tray and oil pan again, Holley street dominator and 850 Demon again, Cheeter system with big jets 225 HP this time.

Of corse I just built his olds, my first olds, ack they suck. Mag filled cross over tubes block them off, then full ported and polished the heads. 10.0 compression Ross pistons, stock rods, 70 455, offy single plane, 850 Holley POS, 2" headers.
truck ran 12.4 last year with 150 HP of NOS, this year runs 12.3 without NOS in the same truck with my engine. The Cuda used to have a 360 in it running 14.7 that he paid $6,500 for and a TCI trany he paid $1,800 for. I traded my heads and my trany for both and untuned it went 11.7 @ 119 right off the bat. Too big of carb and header for the combo, doesn't run right with out the 130 shot, 11.7 SUCKS.

weight was made at the Spokane waste to energy transfer station in Spokane WA. I must have left out a ton but it's late sorry.

[DirectConnection]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope gasket matching doesn't make the port hugely larger than an intake port, it helps if the intake doesn't match the head well.

1/16th removal on both sides and top *is* making the port "hugely larger" in my opinion.

[DirectConnection]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pope 550 WHP, 710 ft lbs at the tires, staceys auto tune and tire dyno 69 440 mag, stock crank and rods. quench dome KB pistons, stock windage tray. 69, 906 heads. stock steel valves, double springs (one dampener), fully reshaped and ported and polished. Holley strip dominator intake Demon vac secondary 850 MP ignition kit, Accel super coil, 8mm wires 2" X 42" tube headers, duel 3" exhaust W/ H pipe and SS ultra flow mufflers MP SS shocks (rear) with MP SS springs. Competion Engineering 90/10 front shocks, 318 torsion bars (.86"), 1" Addco sway bar 10x28 drag radials, 4.30 8.75 cone 489 rear end, race axles, MP frame connectors. stock all steel body, uncut or changed, flat steel 68 formula S hood, dual snorkel air cleaner w/K&N. Battery in the trunk. Custom leather interior, "tuck and role" front buckets, rear seat and leather tuck door panels, sound deading added MP 284 484 "412" cam with 76 degrees overlap, stock valve train. Stock rad and clutching fan, power steering. Cheater NOS system, smallest jets they have for 130 shot pope built 727, 4 pinion welded planetarys, 5 clutch drums, cheeta MVB, 10" 3,400 RPM stall converter, still no role cage and the old man is going to die if it goes over! Drives 72 miles from Usk to race it, drives back 72 miles to go home, has never been on a trailer This years new engine I built. 69 440, eagle H beam rods, Ross 10.5 light weight pistons, comp 288R roller street cam, com 3/8" hardend push rods, triple springs, fully ported Edelbrock aluminum heads, ARP bolts everywhere, stock windage tray and oil pan again, Holley street dominator and 850 Demon again, Cheeter system with big jets 225 HP this time. Of corse I just built his olds, my first olds, ack they suck. Mag filled cross over tubes block them off, then full ported and polished the heads. 10.0 compression Ross pistons, stock rods, 70 455, offy single plane, 850 Holley POS, 2" headers. truck ran 12.4 last year with 150 HP of NOS, this year runs 12.3 without NOS in the same truck with my engine. The Cuda used to have a 360 in it running 14.7 that he paid $6,500 for and a TCI trany he paid $1,800 for. I traded my heads and my trany for both and untuned it went 11.7 @ 119 right off the bat. Too big of carb and header for the combo, doesn't run right with out the 130 shot, 11.7 SUCKS. weight was made at the Spokane waste to energy transfer station in Spokane WA. I must have left out a ton but it's late sorry.

Rob, I have no idea what car(s) you are talking about because you rambled off #s and such. But I will tell you that a CONE posi will NEVER support 710 ftlbs at the wheels.

[lotza boost]

Pope, you still didn't answer my questions.
I can't speak for others, but I think they find your numbers hard to accept as well.
Oh well, I will just have to find me a different hero. Thanks anyway.
lebaronguy2001, I still wish you the greatest success in your build as I am sure you will find many ways to make your TD run fast. It may never make earth rotating power but neither does mine...but they sure do try to.