87 T2 crank rods and block questions

[glhs950]

The wrist pin on one cylinder let loose and messed up one cylinder pretty bad. Sleeve the block or pitch it?
I don't really care to use the forged crank in a rebuild, but can I use the T2 rods on a cast crank?
Can the rods be used in any 2.5 applications?

This bad engine is from a 87 Shelby Z Daytona.

[1983Rampage]

The block I am uncertain about, but the T2 rods can be used on the cast crank, it is just that the cast crank can not hold up to as much HP as the forged one. The rods from the 2.5 turbo engine had the same rods as the T2 engine, so they will work for that as well. Sorry for no answer on the block though, I have not had to do much work with blocks.

[reliantwagon]

oh the block... id just see which is cheaper replacement block or the sleeve? and do it that way

[Shadow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glhs950 The wrist pin on one cylinder let loose and messed up one cylinder pretty bad. Sleeve the block or pitch it? I don't really care to use the forged crank in a rebuild, but can I use the T2 rods on a cast crank? Can the rods be used in any 2.5 applications? This bad engine is from a 87 Shelby Z Daytona.

Block should be easy enough to come by, I'd replace the block. The rods can be used on a 2.2 cast crank for your 87-88 T2 block (if you don't go CB) They can also be used in any CB application. I don't think you could use them in an older 2.5 engine without a really wierd custom piston.

[87dtna]

I used a cast T1 crank in my 87' T2 block with stock T2 rods in a 300 WHP setup with no issues. The non-commonblock is far more of an issue before the crank turns out to be, and IMO a cast crank is better in a non-CB because it's lighter and puts less stress on things.
I would ditch the block if it's so far gone that it needs sleeved.
Since you are needing a block why not just go common block? 89 and up T1 2.5's are easy to find, very common engines. Just don't get a TBI because they have different pistons that you cannot re-use and they also don't have an oil drain back for the turbo.
But yes your T2 rods will work they are same as 2.5 common block. I'm surprised if a pin let go bad enough to trash the block that rod didn't get damaged with it.

[86-89 Lancer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87dtna IMO a cast crank is better in a non-CB because it's lighter and puts less stress on things. I'm surprised if a pin let go bad enough to trash the block that rod didn't get damaged with it.

I agree on the cast crank for non CB, because a heavier forged crank is like hitting the mains & main webbing with a heavier hammer.

and with - how did the rod not bend with the pin dragging the wall? I'll bet it is bent and you can't see it with the naked eye. I think the specs say if you center a 6 in long dowel thru the small end of the rod and measure the tip of the dowel to the big end on both sides there shouldn't be over .005 difference.

I have an 87 TII cross drilled block & floating rods if you're interested.

[Shadow]

I'm guessing that the bad pin he's talking about is a retainer that came off the pin and slid down the cylinder wall, fairly common with stock pins and retainers.

[cawcislo]

Just go with an 89 and newer block. An 89 and newer turbo block would be easiest (already has the oil drainback drilled out as well as the cross drilling for the coolant between the cylinders), but if you can't get one a non turbo 89 and newer block will work. You'll just have to drill a few extra holes. As for the crank, there's lots of guys running 350+ hp on cast cranks. Good luck.

[86-89 Lancer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cawcislo Just go with an 89 and newer block. An 89 and newer turbo block would be easiest (already has the oil drainback drilled out as well as the cross drilling for the coolant between the cylinders), but if you can't get one a non turbo 89 and newer block will work. You'll just have to drill a few extra holes. As for the crank, there's lots of guys running 350+ hp on cast cranks. Good luck.

CB is way better, but remember if he's wants to go that route he needs the whole bottom end and round tooth cam gear - the block alone is not enough. Example: 5 bolt crank pulley, long snout crank, different oil pan along with front & rear crank seal holders, different water pump.

[cawcislo]

All the stuff you mentioned should probably come with the common block motor. If not just pick it up for a few $ at the wreckers, there's tonnes of it for cheap.

[SpiritedShelbys]

I'm going to give you my opinion backed with my experiences with both forged and cast bottom ends; T2 converted T1's are junk and the Forged stuff is golden. Hitting the rods with a heavier hammer? I have had about 14 of these cars and variable factors aside I have NEVER had a GLHS with an original motor which saw more than 70K miles ever. All my forged bottom ends have seen 140K plus. I'm of course talking about stock or slightly higher than stock boost levels. If you're planning to drag race your car and be pulling and rebuilding your motor every few races... go with the cast junk. If you are like myself and prefer to drive your car and wrench as little as possible, go Forged. Right now my GLHS is in the exact SAME situation as yours. Last weekend we opened it up to diagnose an oil consumption problem and found the same thing; wrist pin or retainer. Go with the forged T-2.

[86-89 Lancer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpiritedShelbys I'm going to give you my opinion backed with my experiences with both forged and cast bottom ends; T2 converted T1's are junk and the Forged stuff is golden. Hitting the rods with a heavier hammer? I have had about 14 of these cars and variable factors aside I have NEVER had a GLHS with an original motor which saw more than 70K miles ever. All my forged bottom ends have seen 140K plus. I'm of course talking about stock or slightly higher than stock boost levels. If you're planning to drag race your car and be pulling and rebuilding your motor every few races... go with the cast junk. If you are like myself and prefer to drive your car and wrench as little as possible, go Forged. Right now my GLHS is in the exact SAME situation as yours. Last weekend we opened it up to diagnose an oil consumption problem and found the same thing; wrist pin or retainer. Go with the forged T-2.

Do you know the difference betwwen the pre common block and Common block? This guy has a pre common block and this discussion was about sleeving it or replacing it with either a precommon block or upgrading to common block. You said go forged TII -- well you didn't say which one (pre or Common block) -- with all your 14 cars experience you aught to know they aren't equal nor equivalent it's apples and oranges. The Common block main bearing saddles/ webbing and bearing caps are way beefier along with solid filled cavities on the skelleton legs for the bell housing. The pre common block is not as strong and will flex and crack at or before a cast crank failure limit; therefore a forged crank is of no benefit in that block and moreover because the crank is heavier it has 2 draw backs: 1- heavier is slower to accelerate, 2- heavier creates more centrifical force appling further undue stress on the mains. So please next time don't insult me or misqoute me I didn't say hit "the rods" with a heavier hammer I said hit "the mains" I thank you for sharing your opinion and experiences it sounds like you've had some bad luck.
Jeff

[SpiritedShelbys]

Yep, you're right. I didn't read the "replace with" part. My situation is different as I've kept mine factory correct, visually ;-D If you don't care about stamped numbers, casting numbers and the like then your apples and oranges assessment is absolutely dead on.

[cawcislo]

I've had my 2.5 Common block motor for about 4 years and about 20,000 abusive miles. No issues at all the the bottom end. With a common block a cast crank should be just fine unless you're planning on making huge HP.

[87dtna]

I have a cast TBI 2.2 crank is a common block I plan to put 400 WHP to it, not expecting any issues with the crank. If 350+ WHP can be done on a 2.5 cast crank in a CB with no problems than 400 WHP should be perfectly fine with a 2.2 because the smaller stroke puts far less stress on the mains and pretty much everything.