Total Seal Rings

[BadFastGTC]

Quote:

Originally posted by DOHCRT The culprit here wasn't the surface finish (ok maybe 10% of the cause) the main problem was running a richer than stock fuel mixture for break-in. By doing this the oil is washed from the cylinder walls and causes the rings to burnish the cylinder walls, which gives you a glazed cylinder and therefore no or little sealing. Talking to TS at the track, they said to run a stock mixture or even a little lean until the rings seat, then add fuel and turn up the boost.

I used the stock electronics and the old 804 injectors to break the motor in. I was at a complete loss as to why the oil consumption was so high. I didn't switch the car over to Red Line oil until I had put 4K on the motor. I just didn't have the success that others have had with the Total Seal rings. FYI, I know they suggested restricting the PCV system and tried that also. No change in oil consumption so I swapped out the rings.

[BadFastGTC]

Quote:

Originally posted by glennsmith All I have ever run in all of my turbo engines "total seal" - I have never had a problem with them , in fact i don't care for standard rings they smoke and use oil- Glenn

Glenn,
Any ideas as to why I had the difficulty I did? The groove clearances were all within spec., the gaps were all hand filed, the ring faces still look great, and I couldn't see any reason they didn't work as far as oil control. I did not know the issue with the valve seals as Warren's site states, but then again, the folks at Total Seal didn't mention anything about it either.

[kedavis]

hey steve not sure if this would be it but did you disable the pvc here is a quote from a guy who had simular problem.[On a 2 1/2 hour trip almost 1 1/2 quarts of oil were consumed. Apparently the increased vacuum created by the Total Seal rings and the higher compression were drawing oil vapor into the intake manifold via the valve cover breather hoses. The simple cure was to route those hoses into a tee fitting and run that into a remote overflow/breather tank. Oil consumption was now normal, and there was no need to worry about fuel octane dilution in the combustion chamber due to the presence of oil.]

[gasketmaster]

I think one thing is for sure........you can't go wrong using the proven regular Sealed Power piston rings..........some of the fastest cars in the world have been using them for years

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally posted by gasketmaster I think one thing is for sure........you can't go wrong using the proven regular Sealed Power piston rings..........some of the fastest cars in the world have been using them for years

True, but if you can almost eliminate blow-by and make the engine more efficient for a few bucks more, why the heck not! :big grin:

[gasketmaster]

Quote:

Originally posted by turbovanman True, but if you can almost eliminate blow-by and make the engine more efficient for a few bucks more, why the heck not! :big grin:

If Steve had trouble with them then anybody could............maybe everything needs to be perfect to get them to work correctly.
I'm just saying that for most list members their money and time are probably best spent looking somewhere else for improvements
They should just stick with what's been working for years.

Kenny Duttweiler who is most likely the most renouned turbo engine builder in the country uses and recommends the Sealed Power rings just to state one example

[BadFastGTC]

Quote:

Originally posted by kedavis hey steve not sure if this would be it but did you disable the pvc here is a quote from a guy who had simular problem.[On a 2 1/2 hour trip almost 1 1/2 quarts of oil were consumed. Apparently the increased vacuum created by the Total Seal rings and the higher compression were drawing oil vapor into the intake manifold via the valve cover breather hoses. The simple cure was to route those hoses into a tee fitting and run that into a remote overflow/breather tank. Oil consumption was now normal, and there was no need to worry about fuel octane dilution in the combustion chamber due to the presence of oil.]

I had tried something similar to no avail. I originally purchased the rings and pistons from LRE back in 1995 and while I could see the theory behind the rings and was really trying to get the results out of them, I wasn't able to do so. I called and talked with Bill Lambros and we could not come up with a logical solution as to what the heck happened to my stuff. The swap over to a standard ring cured the problem. I was very tempted to just swap over the oil control rings, but thought the better of it and did them all.

[glennsmith]

Glenn,
Any ideas as to why I had the difficulty I did? The groove clearances were all within spec., the gaps were all hand filed, the ring faces still look great, and I couldn't see any reason they didn't work as far as oil control. I did not know the issue with the valve seals as Warren's site states, but then again, the folks at Total Seal didn't mention anything about it either.


__________________
Steve Menegon

Steve, I wouldn't have any idea not being there when you tore it down , i would hate to guess which is all my "arm chairing" would be - I have all of the rings made to my specs not off the shelf - Glenn

[BadFastGTC]

[QUOTE
Steve, I wouldn't have any idea not being there when you tore it down , i would hate to guess which is all my "arm chairing" would be - I have all of the rings made to my specs not off the shelf - Glenn [/b][/quote]

I know what you mean. It's the same as trying to diagnose a running problem from far away, you can guess. Without any cold hard facts from hands on, it's a crap shoot at best.

[glhsken]

Quote:

Originally posted by gasketmaster I think one thing is for sure........you can't go wrong using the proven regular Sealed Power piston rings..........some of the fastest cars in the world have been using them for years

Hastings Baby!!! I've thrown 20 psi boost at them within 5 miles.. They eat it up

[LancerShelby]

I'm going to run the Max Seals this year. With these, the top ring is gapless and the 2nd is not, mostly to deal with the fluttering problem. Also, Davenport Racing here in town is where I had my block properly honed with the proper grit stones AS PER Total Seal. The machine shops just can't use regular honing stones, they need to use a 3 step process....1st is a really rough hone that makes deeper cuts in the walls, 2nd and 3rd are much lighter in that they only knock the "tops" of the cuts from the 1st step. They had to get 3 different sets of stones to do this process, and each stone only sees 3 strokes per cylinder on the machine.
Davenport also has the proper filling tool from Total Seal
All of this combines to produce a better seal. If your wondering why I know all of this, is because I was standing right next to my friend who works at the shop while he was doing it.
www.davenportmotorsports.com

[gasketmaster]

Quote:

Originally posted by glhsken Hastings Baby!!! I've thrown 20 psi boost at them within 5 miles.. They eat it up

I agree..........Hastings makes a great ring as well

For that matter.........I've ran 30+ psi with the rings that Ma Mopar installed from the factory............I guess I just like to keep things simple

[Glhs60]

Were you guys that have had problems with gapless rings lubing your rings when you assembled your engines? Along with the being more sensitive to honing, and valve sealing, some people are assembling the rings dry to ensure the rings break in. I mean bone dry!! Yikes.
Steve, I'm assuming you lubed your rings on assembly as would be normal but I am curious what Glen did. Or anyone else who had sucess or not.
Thanks
Randy

[glennsmith]

I just mist the rings - No problems - Glenn