Where to find a good common block?

[Polygon]

I am thinking about replacing the block in the GTC. It has a 2.2L common block with balance shafts. I would simply like to replace the block with a Turbo II common block.

Does anyone know of a reputable place that sells common blocks?

[glhsken]

Look for any 89 and up block, 2.2 or 2.5 and have your internals swapped in. A 2.2 TBI block will work fine as well (the cast crank is actually preferable to some)

[Polygon]

Well, I understand that, and I only want a Turbo II common block. I don't want to deal with the **** balanced shafts. I am mainly looking for a place to get one. I guess I am only dealing with one year for the block though, it would have to be an 89 common block. I think I could get one from the dealership, but they probably want too much. I also think it would be near impossible to find someone with a good 89 Turbo II common block and head here in Utah. If nobody here knows of any reputable places I can go then I guess I'll have to see if I can find one on here and pay for shipping, but that is a last resort.

call us up at the little shop we are in winnipeg manitoba canada
http://www.mts.net/~dsarlaki/
info is here

and why say 2.5L is **** those balance shafts give you an extra 10 untaped hp add under pullys thats another 5 to 10 hp

and it has more displacement

second its internals are good to a good 320 + hp and to make that you have to exteansivly mod the motor to handel that boost
not to mention a super 60 turbo portpolish by far a t1 2.5L is better so now imagine

a 2.5L with 2.2 cast aluminum crank shaft JE forged pistons mp head gasket no balance shafts underdrive pullys port polish 3 inch exust hybrid turbo and all stge 5 computer setings 3 bar map 40% larger injectors super 60 fuel pump nice famic intercooler all at 30 psi


now is u dont mind me asking you what mods have you done on ur motor to get the extra 30 hp
beacuse 13 psi will not do it that 1 psi more than the stock 12

unless u have the factory hot rob witch like 4 were made at around 200 hp check out donovans site every td'er use's his site as a bible

dont mean to flame you but stock gtc made 174 hp at 12 psi to get that 205 you would have to boost to about 17 to 18 psi on that vnt the vnt compressor is small like the mits

so some explanation would be cool

[Turbodave]

Quote:

Originally posted by daytonawpg a 2.5L with 2.2 cast aluminum crank shaft JE forged pistons

Cast aluminum crank And balance shafts that give you 10hp?


Polygon, it sounds almost like your looking for a complete engine? The actual TII and 2.5 Blocks are almost the same except for a couple bolt hoes and an oil feed for the balanceshafts, that is easy to plug. You are correct in the fact that 89 was the only year for a common block non-balance shaft turbo engine, they are rather difficult to find.

removing th balance shafts gives you anywere from 7 to 10 hp on 2.5L motors and plus you can hold an extra leater of oil if you really want it the motor rumbles alittle more alotho when you remove the shafts you have to mod the oild plus and what not

adding a set of underdrive pullys will help asweel thay are rated 5 to 10 hp at 5000+ rpm << for me that = more power

edit 2.2 dose not come with balance shafts

[beefalobilly]

I didn't think 2.2's came with balance shafts? Regardless, if this is about balance shafts, just pull the ones out of your current block, it'd be a lot easier than getting a whole new block...or is there something i'm missing?

[Turbodave]

90 2.2 TIV's and 91-93 TIII's came with balnce shafts. I beleive that Polygon is looking for an engine to put in the 90 VNT Lebaron.

Polygon, As far as where to find one clse to you, may want to try junkyards, www.car-parts.com is usually a pretty good source.


I'm still curious about that cast aluminum crank...

its much more durable than the stock t1 crank
nothing else about it

it dose not add hp it mearly takes much more of a beating
anything else you would like to miss understand

as i said removing the plance shafts from a 2.5L showed inprovements from 7 to 14 hp

all cars will vary depending on mods we will soo find out about mine when it hits the dyno some time this summber


and why go for a vnt motor those turbos arent for making power the compressor is smaller than the one used on a mits

if chrylser/dodge based it on a turbo 2 t3 then ya i would have upgraded to it long ago

[Shelby VNT]

:big grin:

daytonawpg, are you sure you know what your talking about?

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and why say 2.5L is **** those balance shafts give you an extra 10 untaped hp add under pullys thats another 5 to 10 hp and it has more displacement second its internals are good to a good 320 + hp and to make that you have to exteansivly mod the motor to handel that boost not to mention a super 60 turbo portpolish by far a t1 2.5L is better so now imagine

Removing balance shafts will free up some horsepower, and it's possible you'll pick up 10 on the high extremes, but 14, as your other post claims?

The 2.5 liter, of course has more displacement, but that doesn't mean it's better for everybody.

320hp on the stock internals, but then you say you have to extensively modify it? Kind of back tracking there, aren't you? Pistons are usually swapped for forged ones at 300 hp and more. Stock rods, cranks, and blocks can handle it. You do know the rods and blocks are the same for either the 2.2 or 2.5 turbo engines after '89, right? No clear advantage there, but the 2.5 piston design is actually more detenation prone then the 2.2. Something to think about when your running more boost to make more hp......

By far the Turbo I is not clearly better. It depends on what your looking for in an engine. They usually don't make more horsepower then a Turbo II when they recieve the same modifications. More torque perhaps, but not more ponies.

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now is u dont mind me asking you what mods have you done on ur motor to get the extra 30 hp beacuse 13 psi will not do it that 1 psi more than the stock 12 unless u have the factory hot rob witch like 4 were made at around 200 hp check out donovans site every td'er use's his site as a bible dont mean to flame you but stock gtc made 174 hp at 12 psi to get that 205 you would have to boost to about 17 to 18 psi on that vnt the vnt compressor is small like the mits

I don't remember anybody claiming to have an extra 30 hp??

I don't mean to flame you, but you obviously don't know much about the VNT do you? The Turbo IV actually made less then 174 hp due to the restrictions of the turbo, even though the factory rated them at 174 hp.

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and why go for a vnt motor those turbos arent for making power the compressor is smaller than the one used on a mits if chrylser/dodge based it on a turbo 2 t3 then ya i would have upgraded to it long ago

No kidding? The VNT turbine is smaller then the Mitsubishi turbine, not the compressor. Your last sentence makes no sense.....so I'll leave it alone.

And you said you have some kind of shop?

1 I will simply say donovan has made and extra 14 hp from removing his balance shaft


2 i dont run the shop i dont own the shop

3 vnt turbos are pices of ****

4 i am not making 320 hp

5 luigis daytona is on stock everything removed balance shafts polished crank ported intake and exust super 60 turbo on all stoccckkkkkk!!!!! 2.5L engine parts with mild porting!

6 you are an ass for not reading donovans site and coming here condridicting me "i would get some direct qwotes from his site but i am to lazzy go read it for yourself"


7 let me ask you somthing do you think the crank in a 2.5L si the same as a forged crank from a 2.2


8 this part of the forum s for retard like mr labaron vnt that thinks 13 psi will make him an extra 30 hp as so stated in his cardomain and i dont see him replying the only people i see replying are a bunch of nebies to TD'es that seem to think that a stock crank from a 2.5L is the same as a forged crank from 2.2?????

flaming <<<<< shows how new u are at this GO AND READ THE BIBAL FOR TORBO DODGES MAN http://www.thedodgegarage.com/

[Shelby VNT]

Quote:

1 I will simply say donovan has made and extra 14 hp from removing his balance shaft

Gary's site does mention 15 hp by removing balance shafts, but I wonder if he ever dynoed a car to get that number. Numbers can be thrown around all day long, but if you don't have dyno numbers to prove it, an estimation is the best you can do. I doubt anybody would dyno their car stock, take a base line, then 'only' remove the balance shafts, and then go dyno again to measure the gain.

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2 i dont run the shop i dont own the shop

But you work there?

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3 vnt turbos are pices of ****

Under what applications? VNTs are as good as it gets for stock drivability. Have you ever driven one? Everybody knows you won't make 300hp with one, but here happens to be a couple members here with VNTs that have run 13's. That's probably faster then your car. Just becaue an engine with a VNT can't make huge numbers, doesn't automatically make it crap. You obviously can't appreciate the technology of the VNT.

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4 i am not making 320 hp

Probably a good reason for that and I guess everything you say is not coming from personal experience then, is it?

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5 luigis daytona is on stock everything removed balance shafts polished crank ported intake and exust super 60 turbo on all stoccckkkkkk!!!!! 2.5L engine parts with mild porting!

How does this fit into the eqaution? Is he making 320 hp at the wheels with the above set-up? Got the dyno numbers?

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6 you are an ass for not reading donovans site and coming here condridicting me "i would get some direct qwotes from his site but i am to lazzy go read it for yourself"

I am not contradicting you. I'm simply stating that not everything you say is true hard facts. Besides you qouting Gary D. on the balance shafts, everything else you've said about the 2.5 being best and the VNT being crap is only your opinion.

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7 let me ask you somthing do you think the crank in a 2.5L si the same as a forged crank from a 2.2

I know for a fact that the cranks are NOT the same. No where did I say they were! Perhaps you didn't read my post right when I said :

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You do know the rods and blocks are the same for either the 2.2 or 2.5 turbo engines after '89, right?

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8 this part of the forum s for retard like mr labaron vnt that thinks 13 psi will make him an extra 30 hp as so stated in his cardomain and i dont see him replying the only people i see replying are a bunch of nebies to TD'es that seem to think that a stock crank from a 2.5L is the same as a forged crank from 2.2?????

See my above comment for the crankshaft comments.

I'm not talking about Polygon. I'm talking about you. Picking up 30 extra hp is probably possible with a VNT, but not simply by cranking the boost up 1 pound on a stock motor.

This forum is for everybody last time I checked. Newbie or not.

I guess guys like you with your vast expertise and knowledge of a

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2.2 cast aluminum crank shaft

would know way more then the rest of us. We should be so lucky to have you in our presence.

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flaming <<<<< shows how new u are at this GO AND READ THE BIBAL FOR TORBO DODGES MAN http://www.thedodgegarage.com/

Umm, yup. Flaming is a true sign of a newbie. Check the day I joined here. I'm probably older then you are by the looks of your poor typing and countless spelling errors.

Gary Donovan's website is an excellent resource and I've visisted many times. Just because 'you' read it too, doesn't make you the expert you make yourself out to be.

[Polygon]

Man, daytonawpg, you really do have a lot of nerve.

When he is talking about the extra 30HP he is talking about my two Cardomain sites. I will explain myself and I will show you that I am not new to the Turbo Dodges and Chryslers.

1. I estimated that my 1989 LeBaron GTC was making 205 HP to the wheel with 225 ft/lbs of torque before it was wrecked. It was not completely stock. As far as mods went it had a Centerforce craptastic clutch and less than a month before it was totaled I installed a full 3" exhaust and was running around without a cat using a test pipe in its place. Now if you know anything about TDs then you know that the 1989 GTC either had a Turbo I or a Turbo II. Mine had a Turbo II.

2. After that I found a 1990 LeBaron GTC. I knew that it had a VNT instead of the Turbo II and I knew that the engine would have the balanced shafts. Again, if you know anything about TDs then you would know that 90+ common blocks all had balanced shafts, 2.2L and 2.5L, to simplify production. Perhaps you should go read Gary's site again, that is stated there quite clearly.

3. I never planned on sticking with the VNT25 turbo. Despite the fact that it was a great design I wanted to make more power than the turbo could provide. Hell I'm not even going with a T03. The GTC will have a GT series turbo in it.

4. If you couldn't tell from that site, my 1990 GTC does NOT even run. It is missing a camshaft and the engine bay is a mess. I bought it as a project car and to save a great car from the crusher.

5. As for your comment about stock boost levels. The Turbo II could be anywhere from 12-14 PSI stock. Mine happened to be putting nearly 14 PSI out. Not every car was putting out the same amount of boost.

6. As for why I listed the 90 GTC as having 205 HP and 225 ft/lbs of torque I was planning on dropping the engine from the 89 along with the exhaust into the 90 GTC. However; those plans went south and I haven't updated any of my Cardomain sites in a long time.

7. I never said the 2.5L was ****. I never even said anything about the 2.5L in the first place. I was complaining about the balanced shafts in my 2.2L.

Next time daytonawpg, think before you open you mouth. A lot of the "facts" you've posted in this thread are sheer misinformation and you are sitting her calling us names. It just irks me that we have people that act like this in our community.

Thanks to everyone that is trying to help me out rather than make assumptions on my intelligence and knowledge and insult me.

My entire premise to this thread is the fact that I don't want to remove the balanced shafts from this engine. I want this to be as clean as humanly possible and would just rather have an engine that never had them installed. I also don't know how this engine was treated and would love to have a brand new block. I am not necessarily looking for a complete engine though it would be nice, since I need a new head anyway.

1. I estimated that my 1989 LeBaron GTC was making 205 HP to the wheel with 225 ft/lbs of torque before it was wrecked. It was not completely stock. As far as mods went it had a Centerforce craptastic clutch and less than a month before it was totaled I installed a full 3" exhaust and was running around without a cat using a test pipe in its place. Now if you know anything about TDs then you know that the 1989 GTC either had a Turbo I or a Turbo II. Mine had a Turbo II.



okay so your saying 205 to the weels....so we are talking about 240-250 hp actual hp to the flyweel at 13 psi on a turbo 2 t3 garret it takes alittle more psi than that more like 16 - 17 to be exact just a nice question no flaming intended and that if ur injectors can take or if u have cold starts or your electronics is upgraded to super 60

see that t2 turbo is rated at 280 at most the rest of your power would have to come from other engin mods porting and what not

[Dan Culkin]

Quote:

Originally posted by Polygon Well, I understand that, and I only want a Turbo II common block. I don't want to deal with the **** balanced shafts. I am mainly looking for a place to get one. I guess I am only dealing with one year for the block though, it would have to be an 89 common block. I think I could get one from the dealership, but they probably want too much. I also think it would be near impossible to find someone with a good 89 Turbo II common block and head here in Utah. If nobody here knows of any reputable places I can go then I guess I'll have to see if I can find one on here and pay for shipping, but that is a last resort.

You already have a good T2 common block.

#1 - take your balance shafts out.
#2 - plug hole.
#3 - get oil pickup and oil pan from 89T2, 89T4, or 89up 2.2TBI.
#4 - put on your block.

There - you have a good T2 common block.