2.2L Common Block?

[Bl4ckD34m0n]

Alright, before anyone links the site, I've read the Turbo Database on both the dodge garage and turbo minivan a few times. What I was wondering is if there was ever a 2.2L Turbo common block that wasen't a Turbo III or Turbo IV. The reason I am asking this is that I have an 87 Turbo II short block, I want to transplant the crank and rods to a 2.2L Common Block with Forged JE slugs, but I can't seem to find any 2.2L common blocks that weren't used for Turbo III's or Turbo IV's, and I don't think I'm going to find one of those laying around in a scrap yard anytime soon. Finally, was the 89 Shelby Z powered by a Tubo II or a Turbo IV, I have been getting conflicting stories, that 88 was the last year for the Turbo II, and that it went on thru 90.

[Mopar_Nutz]

The TII's went through to 89 and 89 was the only year for the common block TII. In 90 the TII was replaced by the TIV, though the TIV was pretty limited.

[Bl4ckD34m0n]

How about 87 TII internals in a 2.5 Turbo Common block? Once again, I get conflicting stories.

2.5 turbo's came with the heavy TII rods already. If you want a 2.2, you'll need to source a 2.2L crankshaft from a common block ('89+ Omni's and Shadow's) and 2.2L turbo pistons.

[Bl4ckD34m0n]

What about the crank, can I use the forged TII crank, I don't mind the extra weight.

[MachineHead]

The non common block crank will not work in a common block.

-Kyle

[Bl4ckD34m0n]

BUMP - Alright, this has been bugging me for quite some time, according to you guys, an 87' TII Forged Crank will not fit a common block, and from what I understand, after 1990, all 2.2/2.5 motors are common block design, and from eveything I have been able to find, the bottom end of a 2.2L NA common block is identical to the pre-common block TII motors.
The Clevite Main Bearings: PN - MS1533P are listed on Autozone and AdvanceDiscount as the main bearings for the 87-89 TII, the Turbo 2.5 Common Block, and the Late model 2.2 and 2.5L NA as well.
They also list the Chicago Rawhide Crankshaft Seal PN - 35905 for all those blocks as well.

And the turbo god Garry Donovan says some things on his turbo database that are confusing, for example:

Quote:

The TBI common block is the same as a turbo common block except that the turbo oil return passage is not machined out the rear of the block, a simple operation.

So you can machine out a TBI common block and make it work with the
tubo?

Quote:

Chrysler was able to get 2.5 liters out of a common block by using a 2.2 liter rod with very short 2.5 specific piston and long throw crank.

But I thought the first common blocks were 2.5's to begin with?

Quote:

TURBO common block 2.2's and 2.5's have different pistons and cranks- only the block and rods are shared. I repeat this because people always forget.

Ok, so if the blocks are the same, what prevents you from using a 2.2 pistons, crank, and connecting rods on what was originaly a 2.5 turbo common block?

And Finally

Quote:

The 2.5 Turbo/2.5 TBI block can be used as a replacement 2.2 TII block as long as the oil hole for the balance shafts are blocked!!!! (2.5's always came with balance shafts)

OK, so TII internals can be used in a 2.5 Tubo/TBI Common block, contrary to what I have been told, of course I assumed he was talking about 2.5 common blocks since the whole previous part of section in the turbo database was about common blocks?

I am so ****ing confused it's not even funny....

I guess all I really want to know is, I have acess to a 1994 Dodge Shadow 2.2L TBI, the block is good and I can get it cheap, can I machine out the oil passage and put my 87' TII internals in the block?

[Mopar_Nutz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bl4ckD34m0n But I thought the first common blocks were 2.5's to begin with?

Common blocks are `89 and newer 2.2's and 2.5's. That includes both turbo and n/a cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bl4ckD34m0n Ok, so if the blocks are the same, what prevents you from using a 2.2 pistons, crank, and connecting rods on what was originaly a 2.5 turbo common block?

Nothing. All you need to make a 2.5 into a 2.2 is 2.2 pistons and crank.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bl4ckD34m0n OK, so TII internals can be used in a 2.5 Tubo/TBI Common block, contrary to what I have been told, of course I assumed he was talking about 2.5 common blocks since the whole previous part of section in the turbo database was about common blocks?

89+ turbo internals can be put into 89+ n/a blocks to make a turbo block. All you'd need to do is drill and tap an oil return line into the block for the turbo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bl4ckD34m0n I guess all I really want to know is, I have acess to a 1994 Dodge Shadow 2.2L TBI, the block is good and I can get it cheap, can I machine out the oil passage and put my 87' TII internals in the block?

No, common block engines are 89+ and are different from pre common block engines (88 and older). If you want to put TII internals into that 94 block, you'll need 89+ parts for it. BUT since it's already a 2.2, all you'd really need is common block (89+ remember? ) 2.2 turbo pistons. I believe you could then use your 87 TII rods, but I'm not 100% on that. I honestly forget on that one. The 2.2 cast crank in that Shadow engine would be tough enough. You wouldn't need to bother with a forged one.

Hopefully that answered some questions. Hope I didn't confuse you worse :big grin:

[glhsken]

It's simple

Take the 94 2.2 block, Swap your PISTONS AND RODS into it, Drill the oil return for the turbo have the shop press YOUR old blocks return tube in.

NO, YOUR forged crank will not work in that block.

YES the bearings did not change with the swap to common block. Crank and rod remain the same. The pistons did not change. The rods did not change.

What the "god" as you called him wrote was very clear.

[Bl4ckD34m0n]

I apologize for all my confusion last night, I war re-reading the section of the turbo database on blocks and some wires got crossed and nothing was making any sense at all to me. I re-read it again this morning and things are much clearer now. I also talked to a friend locally, he has a 90' model TIV short block he is willing to part with, I'm thinking of just grabbing that and putting some new pistons in it, since it already has all the other goodies I am looking for.

I understand some people think I'm going a little nutz over this forged crank thing, but you have to understand what I am trying to do. This motor will be going in my daily driver, and for the forseeable future, my only ride. Thats why I want the stronger Common Block bottom end with a forged crank, it needs to be as strong and as bullet proof as possible. The motor will be pushed hard occasionaly so it needs to be able to take that kind of punishment as well as daily stop and go driving. The added weight of the forged crank dosen't concern me, the extra strenth it provides is overkill according to most people, but I well worth it to me.

[glhsken]

What I posted above is the short version of the interchanges and should be all you need.

Forged 2.2L CB cranks are hard to come by. Remember, ALL 2.5L cranks are cast and they seem to be able to stand 400ft lbs of torque quite well.

Best of luck. BTW, I'm Ken Adler

[shelbyluvinfool]

I know all cranks are made differently, but LS1s are making 800+ with the stock CAST crank.
The extra weight of the forged will slow the speed of the motor, making it point of diminishing returns.
Breaking cranks is not where TD motors go bad. Worry about pistons!
Plus, like Ken said...GOOD LUCK in finding a common block Forged Crank!

[glhsken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelbyluvinfool I know all cranks are made differently, but LS1s are making 800+ with the stock CAST crank. The extra weight of the forged will slow the speed of the motor, making it point of diminishing returns. Breaking cranks is not where TD motors go bad. Worry about pistons! Plus, like Ken said...GOOD LUCK in finding a common block Forged Crank!

Exactly, Much ado about nothing....