okay, let's make a list!

[supercrackerbox]

Let's say you were getting ready to build a shortblock, on a budget, but need to be sure all the bases are covered. Just for example, we'll use an 87 TII, mated to a 520/555. The engine is planned to see the high side of 20psi, and will undoubtedly at least touch redline on occasion. Top end for the engine will be a ported head/manifolds, Super 60 Garret w/ .63 a/r housing, full 3" exhaust, roller cam, NPR intercooler, and all the other standard stuff.

I'm not setting a budget ceiling, but probably the most extravagant thing will be forged pistons.

How would you build it, what parts would you get?

[gakali]

Almost sounds like my project but I'll be using the stock head and a 523 in my SC. I plan on using a common block, N/A 2.2 crank, FWD Perf. T2 rods, Clevite brngs, Venolia forged pistons, TU S60, 2.5 exhaust and swingvalve, no cat or muffler. I'm not sure about ARP head studs. I've never heard of MP bolts failing and there seems to be a lot of talk here of ARP nuts backing off, retorquing, head lifting etc. There may be other variables involved but I'm just not sure if its worth the bother. I may be way off base here, if I am please let me know. Good luck with your project!

[supercrackerbox]

If I can find a 2.2 common block, I'll use it, but they're scarce in these parts. I've found one in a yard, iffy at best, and the car was up to it's fenders in mud and water. No chance of pulling it.

Any details I might have overlooked, especially on machine work, would be appreciated.

[gakali]

I'm going to stick with the stock oil pump to reduce drag. Open up the opening in the block bit also as indicated at The Dodge Garage. Underdrive pulley definately. FWD ported exhaust manifold also. 88 T1 roller cam. I would like a ported head one day but not just yet. Cant forget the 2 stage boost controller. It sure would be nice for you to find a CB. Let me know if I've forgotten anything.

[supercrackerbox]

Well, the current setup consists of an M2 Stage 2 ported head, Taft roller cam, TU Super 60 .63 a/r turbo, 2.5" SV, NPR IC with 2.5" mandrel piping, provisions for a 5th (and even 6th) injector, FWDP underdrive pulley, and I'll have the 3" exhaust soon. Currently this is all in the CSX-T, but with less than 5000 miles on the rebuild, I'm losing oil under WOT. The setup will go in either the GLH or GLHS next summer, and I want to make sure that the engine is done right this time. Don't know where I screwed up on this one, but this short block has had kind of a cursed history with me, so I'm just going to cut my losses and eliminate that factor. Everything else has been changed since spring with the same results.

[moparzrule]

Hmm, well the real question is what are your goals? My goal is 250 WHP, so I didn't need a CB. I built an 87' T2 engine, cast crank and cast Mahle pistons. I had to get a Cast crank due to costs, the stock forged crank was chewed up bad and no longer usable. But I've heard of people doing 400 HP on a cast crank in a non-CB so I'm not worried.
The Mahle's will hold up fine to any abuse you can put to a non-CB, forged is a waste of money in anything less than 300 WHP.
I used a bottle hone and kept it standard bore. T2 rods, .25 mm bearings, ground cast crank, and freeze plugs from FWD-P. Mahle's, rings, and gasket set from forward motion. Stock oil pump and pickup from Advance Auto. I had the head surfaced and cleaned along with the fywheel machined at the local machine shop.
I also got:
2 stage 3 bar ECU from TU, 16/22 PSI
Super 70 turbo
2.5'' catless exhaust w/bullet muffler
underdrive pulley
Chrome moly transplate for the 520 trans
T2/T3 clutch
All new motor mounts, including tranny mount and heavy duty MP bobble strut

[gakali]

With regards to pistons. I cant see making more then 300 HP on my new motor. Do you really think the Mahles are OK? I know that its not the high boost or power that kills pistons its the detonation and extreme temps. Those last 2 things if ignored will kill any piston, cast or forged. I may end up going with the FWD Mahles and just being really carefull, as I would anyway. The extra $ saved would go a long way towards other stuff.

[moparzrule]

Mahle's are good enough. To play it safe get a Dawes A/F gauge, they read anything below .90V as too lean, which is very safe.
Also, are you going atleast .020 overbore? FWD-P doesn't sell standard size Mahle's. In fact, they are no longer making them. I got mine from forward motion, he had to look what he had first cuz he wasn't sure if he had any left! But there are plenty of .020's in stock, at FWD-P and forward motion. Just FYI.

[gakali]

It will be .020 over. Doesnt Forward Motions prices generally seem a bit steep compared to FWD?

[moparzrule]

In general, yes. But there are some things that FWD-P doesn't have, but also a few things are actually cheaper.
Like for instance-
FWD-P doesn't sell a whole rebuild gasket kit for T2, FM does
FWD-P doesn't sell the MP heavy duty bobble strut
FWD-P doesn't sell standard size Mahle's
FWD-P only sells Venolia forged pistons which require a larger wrist pin and a bigger end custom made into the connectiong rods. FM sells JE pistons which require no mods whatsoever.
But, FM doesn't have stuff like the T2/T3 clutch. Bearings are much more expensive, rods are WAY more, cranks are WAY more, ETC. Also FM only sells a stainless steel exhuast system which is insanely expensive, at FWD-P you have many options.

[supercrackerbox]

I don't really have a set goal as far as HP numbers, because I honestly don't know what 300hp would feel like in an L-body. I'm sure I'll always itch for more, no matter what I'm running. Believe me, I'm kicking myself for not getting the Mahle's on this engine, but at the time, I was just looking for a quick stock rebuild to get the car driving. Boy things changed, lol.

[moparzrule]

Ha, 300 WHP in an L body -sticky tires and a good launch you are looking at high 11's! Talk to GLHSKEN, he's done it in his SC. He got like an 11.8, and has 327 WHP or something like that.
I completely understand your $ situation. I had to go with a cast crank due to lack of funds, and also I wanted JE pistons from FM. So I ended up with Mahle's, definitely would not settle for anything less. But thats me, I have company trucks I can drive around until my car gets back on the road.
If you have the time to save up the money, do it right the first time. Go with a commonblock 2.2, get JE pistons from FM. If I were you I'd just live with mediocre power for now, play it safe with those pistons!

[supercrackerbox]

nahh, pretty sure I already smoked one of the pistons, which is why I started this thread in the first place. I've got about $1800 tied up in just the top half of the engine, and by next summer want the rest to be able to go with it.

[86Shelby]

I say use your TII shortblock. ARP hardware, polish&shotpeen the rods, and forged pistons. You should be good at that. Easy budget, easily available parts, and the engine already has all the good forged peices.

I think you/me/we screwed up the rings in #2. There was a slight puff of blue smoke as you and Justin took off after Sonic Saturday. Nothin bad, but I saw it in my headlights. So, was my car smokin' as I passed you and reeled Justin in? J/K