Rebuilding Without The Machine Work????

[Viper9087]

I was told by a fellow TD fanatic & some other people that you could take a smooth running engine with high mileage & change the bearings & rings without having it taken to a machine shop for work... How wise is this & will it work???

I recently purchased another 89 Shelby with 175/200mi on original block never rebuilt but the car has no power or "boost" although it boosts 12 1/2 lbs.

Anyway I'd like to fix this as any TDer would But before I do I want to strengthen the block to avoid a breakdown. Now the engine is quiet as a kitten no noises, knocks, pings, smoke or anything but has almost 200K!! . I was told to pull it apart clean the surfaces with an emery cloth & install new STD size bearings, & give I a quick hone job & install new STD size rings. Can this be done on a perfectly running engine without going to the machine shop & getting a REAL rebuild? & how much life could I expect out of it? I'm on a budget if u know what I mean. & I'm only looking for 2 or 3 years of life out of this engine that will be beaten & raced I'm not looking to hack it together, I want a decent job but I want an honest opinion of whether or not this could be a waste of time.

Thanks!

[DakotaKid]

I rebuilt my engine in my garage with nothing but hand tools, then ran 11's with it.

It can be done, although I would not suggest it simply because of the work envolved.
If you are rebuilding it yourself, how much are you really saving? Couple hundred bucks? I would probably pay a couple hundred bucks and do it right the first time.

-Bryan

[Viper9087]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrboVan If you are rebuilding it yourself, how much are you really saving? Couple hundred bucks? I would probably pay a couple hundred bucks and do it right the first time. -Bryan

Well from the prices i've been getting i'm saving myself between $1000 & $1500 How much should this normally cost me?

[CSXT404]

Speed SHop in SC is doing my TI block. Boring 20 over, polishing crank, pressing on rings to pistons, connecting the T2 rods to the 2.2 new cast malhes (20 over), Cleaning my block (looks brand new) and oil pan, putting in freeze plugs and intermediate shaft bearing for $250. I am going to do the assembly myself so I get the experience, but it would have only cost $150 for them to do the assembly.

$1000 to 1500 is rediculous unless it includes new pistons, rings, and rods.

Just my opinion.

I also recently redid my head myself, so if you are talking about a long block it might not be too bad.

[turbovanman]

Funny how people bash machine shops and mechanics for charging for services, as in you CSXT, know facts before saying crap like that!
And yes, I read your whole post!

Anyhow, nothing can be said about your engine until its taken apart and inspected. Your crank could be scored, rod going out of round, piston pin bushings worn, bores too big or worn oval to accept new rings without boring, the deck could be warped, common problem. Your head might need planing, new valve guides, valve grind etc. If you don't know what your doing, I shouldn't touch it, thats my opinion, all it takes is one bolt or nut not tightened properly or installed to cause catastostophic failure and a ventilated block. If your capable, first off, do a compression test, wet and dry to determine how bad it is! then take it apart, mark bits and pieces, make notes and look at bearing wear etc. If bore is ok, crank, rods etc then yeah, a set of bearings might not be even needed. Throw in a new oil pump, rings etc, have the head done and bingo, your off to the races.

[CSXT404]

Turbovan guy, I wasn't bashing machine shops at all. I respect the work they do. I am sending my CB to a Nascar Race shop to have it blueprinted & balanced. I am going to pay $1000-1500 or so just on my shortblock.

He said he would be saving $1000 to 1500 by not going to a machine shop. All I said was I was able to get all my machine work done for $250. I think that is really fair (flywheel was in there too).

I was implying he can get it done cheaper. He could have the machine shop do the hard stuff like boring,honing,polishing, and do the assembly stuff himself.

Don't jump down peoples throats just because you misunderstood what someone was saying. I understand the skill and technique that a good machinest must have, but most of them try to rip you off if you aren't too smart. Shop around people.

[moparzrule]

Ha, I should be able to bash my local machine shops pretty good. It took them 8 MONTHS to do the following to my 360-
Clean block
bore .030
hone cylinders
refurbish rods
press rods onto pistons
polish crank

Thats it! Simple work that can easily be fit in between other jobs as my bro said (a former machinest). And another local shop charges obscene rates, my bro's eyes almost popped out when I showed him the receipt and then the work they did was horrible he said.

Anyway, I rebuilt my engine a little while ago not needing machine work except the head being surfaced. This is what I did-
de-glazed the bores with a bottle hone
bought refurbished T2 rods from FWD-P
bought ground/polished crank from FWD-P
Mahle STD bore pistons and FM rings from forward motion
bearings/freeze plugs/clutch/etc from FWD-P at the Chrysler's at Carlisle show

My compression 2000 miles later is as follows-
148, 150, 147, 148

[turbovanman]

Wow, my machine shop is faster than a speeding bullet, lol! I usually have any of my stuff back, the same day or 1-2 days depending on how and what I am getting done!

[moparzrule]

Hah, well the one place that was extremely expensive had it done the next day, but I mean come on all it was was a head cleaned/surfaced and a flywheel machining. They didn't even clean off the intake/exhaust side of the head all the gasket material was still there. Do you think that bill should be over $100?
EDIT-the bill was $115

[moparzrule]

Oh BTW the machine shop still has my 360, they called me and asked me if I still wanted it done. I jokingly said the truck rusted away already, he wasn't amused. So I said yeah, and he said it would be about a week, that was 2 weeks ago.

[Viper9087]

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbovanman Anyhow, nothing can be said about your engine until its taken apart and inspected. Your crank could be scored, rod going out of round, piston pin bushings worn, bores too big or worn oval to accept new rings without boring, the deck could be warped, common problem. Your head might need planing, new valve guides, valve grind etc. If you don't know what your doing, I shouldn't touch it, thats my opinion, all it takes is one bolt or nut not tightened properly or installed to cause catastostophic failure and a ventilated block. If your capable, first off, do a compression test, wet and dry to determine how bad it is! then take it apart, mark bits and pieces, make notes and look at bearing wear etc. If bore is ok, crank, rods etc then yeah, a set of bearings might not be even needed. Throw in a new oil pump, rings etc, have the head done and bingo, your off to the races.

I am very capable & not intimidated by the task but provided compression shows good both wet & dry & no scoring on the walls Don't u think this should be done being that the engine has 200,000 miles on it?? the head is of no concern to me i have a preped & ported waiting on the bench. along with other goodies but i am afraid to install on a high mileage engine & then have to rebuild it anyway in a few weeks because it couldn't handle the extra power in the lower end or a wrist pin bushing. Also how much do u think a shop should charge for a rebuild that didn't need exstensive machining?

[Dave Sigman]

if your carefull you can do rings and bearings through the bottom without pulling the motor. if you don't have alot of experience with stuff like this don't try it. its not the recomended method and if I hadn't been in a big rush to be back on the road I woulda pulled it. no hone no polish just rolled in new bearings and reringed the pistons. I'll post compression test results after the rings seat in good.


Dave

[turbovanman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper9087 I am very capable & not intimidated by the task but provided compression shows good both wet & dry & no scoring on the walls Don't u think this should be done being that the engine has 200,000 miles on it?? the head is of no concern to me i have a preped & ported waiting on the bench. along with other goodies but i am afraid to install on a high mileage engine & then have to rebuild it anyway in a few weeks because it couldn't handle the extra power in the lower end or a wrist pin bushing. Also how much do u think a shop should charge for a rebuild that didn't need exstensive machining?

Hard to say! everyone charges different, but the average charge seems to be around $150-300 to assemble it. I think honing is around $10 a hole.
What should be done being that it has 200,000 miles? are you talking boring out the cylinders. Have the machine shop check for that. I would have the deck checked for warpage!

[supercrackerbox]

I don't remember all the prices for the work I had done for my short block (I too had a new ported head waiting).

The block was cleaned and checked for cracks, bored .5mm, turned the crank 10 under, pressed in new auxilary shaft bearings, resized the rods and installed ARP rod bolts (from FWDP), and pressed on the new pistons/pins. I also got the pistons, rings, and all bearings from the shop. All came in right around $500 and took I think 4 days.

[Viper9087]

Well thanks for all the advice if the shop quotes me around 500 for the work that's no problem but the first & only place i went to had a much higher idea. so let me shop around & see what happens.

unless anyone else has a better idea?