Cranks

[glhsken]

Where can you purchase new cranks reliably??

[Aries_Turbo]

hmmm dunno... you muff yours up in the GLHS motor from the rod knock? I myself pull them from running TBI motors. In my k car motor, when I messed it up from rod knock due to gas in the oil (wrong TPS that looked like a T2 one) I just turned the crank but then again I have a stock head to limit the HP

Brian

i thinks FWDperformance.com has some not sure if there new though but i trust FWDperformances products and have never had one fail on me

[glhsken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aries_Turbo hmmm dunno... you muff yours up in the GLHS motor from the rod knock? I myself pull them from running TBI motors. In my k car motor, when I messed it up from rod knock due to gas in the oil (wrong TPS that looked like a T2 one) I just turned the crank but then again I have a stock head to limit the HP Brian

LOL... Oh BOY did I... and more... engine tried to hydro-lock. bent #1 and 4 rods and wiped their bearings. Crank "S/B" good ground .010 but not sure. Damn Injector!!!

Alternate plan in effect. I have "several" pre common block cranks... Going to use something I learned here recently to build an engine with one of those in the CB. A guy I trust says just swap the end plates and non-cb pan and everything is allright.. We'll see.

[puppet]

Say Ken, since you have both examples at hand, could you post the differences? I'll be doing the very thing in a few weeks, pre-cb forged into a cb. After looking over Gary's site the forged cranks share a common part # ... he then mentions the production differences. If it is just the ends of the shaft and not the length that would be good to know. I know what a non-cb block sizes up like but have really only eyeballed a cb from below so far.

The fact that you can get a wrench on the #1 main cap in the cb but not the non-cb, with the front seal in place, makes me think there is more to the differences than just the end diameters. I'm hoping the cb cranks aren't any longer. Maybe you can clear this up for me.

[glhsken]

Hmmm... Everything is at the shop now. To the best of my knowledge, the wrench on the bolt issue is due to the end cap shape to fit the oil pan, nothing to do with the length of the block (which is the same.) The cranks are dimensionally the same exceept the snout.

[puppet]

Which end are we calling the snout?
Maybe when you get them back from the shop you could check to see which crank is larger in this area? Being able to reuse the existing seal housings, pan and gasket would be great, ... if it only meant a bit of machine work on the non-cb crank end(snout).

[powermaxx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by puppet Say Ken, since you have both examples at hand, could you post the differences? I'll be doing the very thing in a few weeks, pre-cb forged into a cb.

Hope this helps. The crank on the left is an early 2.2 and the one on the right is 2.2 common block crank.

The crank on the left was sold to me as a "CB 2.2 crank, yeah it's the right one. They're pretty rare."

Well you can see the differences between the diameters and lengths of the snout. And no ,the front covers will not interchange as they have different mounting bolt patterns.

[puppet]

That's a big help. Looks like the seal shoulder on the cb crank is a smaller diameter and is longer (hard to tell, but it looks like 1/2") ... correct? The length of the shoulder for the timing sprocket is the same?

So a guy would need to get the seal shoulder turned down ... and add a stop collar of the same diameter to equal the cb seal shoulder's length. Only problem is that the timing sprocket won't be fully seated.
... well, this is assuming the timing sprockets are not different in length. If not, this would need to be overcome (length added to the shaft's end) or else it would effect the accessory belt locations.

Sound right?

... and I remember the thread Ken was posting about. The fella stated that he just swapped the seal housings and oil pan, from a non-cb to the cb. Your saying that won't fly?

[powermaxx]

All I know is I started with an 89 2.2 CB and was going to just swap my square tooth adjustable setup over (87 2.2 GLHS). I discovered that wont work as the crank diameter for the sprocket was a different diameter (can't remember which way, small-big or big-small). I then looked at swapping the cranks around (forged is forged) and couldn't get the front cover to swap due to the bolt holes not lining up. (This was over a year ago...) I wound up buying a round tooth adj cam sprocket to keep the project going.

Just saying this is what happened to me. No expert by any means, I've seen some so called "Impossible" things so....

[puppet]

Got around to pulling the motor this weekend and now have a good look at both crank/block examples. (CB and pre-CB)

First, ... No way will the pre-CB front seal housing mate a CB.

Second, .. In order to use a pre-CB crank in the CB a nozzle will need to be machined for the snout. If the pre-CB snout is turned down flush that new "nozzle" would slip over the snout. That "nozzle" would have the seal profile in it ... the extra diameter needed for the CB timing sprocket ... and add the extra length needed. The crank T/S bolts are not interchangable either. Pre-CB is smaller and would have to remain that way.

... now to find out how much this "nozzle" is going to cost.

Actually, the pre-CB snout may not need to be touched. I haven't mic'ed it yet but it looks like the CB seal surface is just outside of the seal surface of the "old" seal surface of the pre-CB crank. If this is the case .. the "nozzle" could be made to butt up to the "old" seal surface shoulder.

If a vendor could make this "nozzle" part, think of all the pre-CB forged cranks that could be put back into service.

[Capt. Chrysler]

Hello puppet, Sorry to ask a stupid question (spent to much time in a dealership). What are mean by "nozzle will need to be machined for the snout"

Thanks

[Una]

hehe, beginning to look like someone was spreading mis-information and everyone bought it.

[puppet]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt. Chrysler Hello puppet, Sorry to ask a stupid question (spent to much time in a dealership). What are mean by "nozzle will need to be machined for the snout" Thanks

Just a bushing .... inside diameter will match pre-CB snout to the shoulder of the FMS, outside diameter, profile and length will match CB snout less the pre-CB seal shoulder. I called it a "nozzle" because it will be shaped like one ... a cup with a hole in the bottom.

I mounted the FMS housing on the block with the pre-CB crank in place and the back side of the seal just touches the "old" seal shoulder. This couldn't have worked out better. No machine work on the pre-CB cranks snout will be needed.
A little sealant where the new bushing (nozzle) butts the "old" seal shoulder will be all that is needed. This can't be too big a deal to have machined at all.
The nice part about this is no other parts need to be swapped over .... which isn't going to happen regardless.

[glhsken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Una hehe, beginning to look like someone was spreading mis-information and everyone bought it.

Could be... But I trust the spreader... I'll be looking to play with this myself when I get the room.